Oldest man ever to break 4:00 for the first time?

i think we did this once before. i believe the oldest american to break 4:00 was george young at age 34. if you don't know much about young, he was without question one of the most versatile and successful american distance runners ever.

There was a guy in the UK, Ken Penney who was a good all-round distance runner in late 80s early 90s. He clocked 3:59 at 29 though he'd operating close to that level for a few years. Going back to a previous generation Gordon Pirie who was the first man to break 13:40 for 5k only dipped under 4:00 for the mile just the once, also at the age of 29. Apparently after the race, in Dublin in 1960, he went round wild, jumping up and down, kissing all the other guys in the race and screaming "I've done it, I've done it!"

There was also a guy called Tom Buckner (younger brother of Jack, 1986 Euro 5k champion) who suddenly produced 2-3 years of top class times having spent many years as just a good club runner. He ran 3:58 when aged 30 and also did about 8:30 3Ksteeple - I think he attributed his performance simply down to a long uninterrupted spell of quality training. Of course, Paul Evans only started running at 28 and produced staggering times across a range of distances, though he didn't crack 4:00 - he ran about 4:00.9 or something.

I don't know if you can go sub-4 but there's no reason why can't improve for several years. You seem to already have a good base to work from, but probably need to increase both the quantity and quality of your training - though not necessarily at the same! Be patient, persevere, have fun.

And good luck.

I knew George Young pretty well (was a subject for me on several occasion -- last time when he was 55 and still hanging in there) and I remember his sub-4. I think you are right at 34. You are also right that he had done many great things in other races, including a Bronze Medal in the Mexico City Olympics in the steeple (may well have won had the race been at sea level). He also ran in the Olympic marathon in Mexico City Olympics.

Stover, are you getting Richardson's fat ass out there?

Might want to check on Henry Marsh. He ran 8:10 to 8:15 steeple each year for most the 1980's, but only broke four in 1988,his last season,when he realized that he hadnt got around to doing it yet.

Marsh broke 4:00 for the first time at age 31. He did it again at age 34.

Am I wrong in thinking that Steve Scott ran faster than four minutes in his mid to late 30s? I was under the impression he was the oldest American to break four.

Martin

SPORTS PEOPLE Runner, 42, still chasing sub-four-minute mile.... Scott wants to become oldest runner to break sub-4 minute mile

Press wire service

1,111 words

2 April 1999

The Grand Rapids Press

B7

English

Copyright (c) 1999 Bell & Howell Information and Learning Company. All rights reserved.

DES MOINES, Iowa -- Steve Scott already has run more sub-4-minute miles than anyone in history. His goal now is to become the oldest runner to do it.

Scott, who'll be 43 May 5, will make the attempt April 24 at the Drake Relays -- 20 years after becoming the first to break the 4- minute barrier in an open mile at Drake.

"I don't know if it will produce the same results as 20 years ago," Scott said Thursday. "But it will be exciting for the people to revisit that day."

Scott has broken the 4-minute barrier 136 times, including eight races under 3:50, and has a best time of 3:47.69, run in 1982. He ran his last sub-4 in 1994 at 38.

The world record for the outdoor mile in the 40-and-over division is 4:02.53 by Britain's David Moorcroft in 1993.

The fastest mile ever run by a 40-plus athlete is 3:58.15 by Ireland's Eamonn Coghlan at an indoor meet at Boston in 1994.

Moorcroft was 40 when he set his record, Coghlan was 41.

"Physically and mentally I feel like I'm capable," said Scott, who lives and trains in Encinitas, Calif. "I've seen in some workouts I've done that it's within reach.

"But as I get closer to it and get into intense training, I get injuries. The physiological standpoint has been my downfall. Now I'm understanding why no one this age has been able to break four minutes. It's very hard training for a mile."

Scott was sloweed by testicular cancer in 1994.

Breaking 4 minutes in a mile requires the speed of an 800-meter runner and the strength of a 5,000-meter runner, Scott said.

It's the speed work that's causing him problems.

"I'd get a slight muscle pull in my calf, then I'd have to lay off for a while," he said. "Then when you come back, you've lost your conditioning."

Scott ran a 5,000-meter at Carlsbad, Calif., last weekend in 14:30.

He figured that would equate to a 4:07 or 4:05 mile, which was encouraging.

Okla. man picks all 64 teams

ENID, Okla. -- Bob Segretti knows a lot about the weather. It turns out he also something about college basketball.

Segretti, a meteorologist stationed at Vance Air Force Base, took first place ahead of some 600,000 challengers in The Sporting News' Beat The Bracket, CNN-SI's Hoops Bracket Challenge, and ESPN's Tournament Challenge.

Segretti correctly picked every game from the regional semifinals through the title game of the 64-team tournament and won tickets to next year's championship game in Indianapolis from The Sporting News.

He also won a $1,000 gift certificate from CNN-SI and from ESPN, a trip to next year's Final Four, 64 pizzas and a computer.

"The guys I work with were kidding me about not being able to do this well with the weather," said the Air Force sergeant, who also works as a part-time sports writer at the Enid News & Eagle. " I said that I do pretty good with that, too. There was also a little bit of luck on my side."

Umpire questions major league survey

ROCHESTER, N.Y. -- Ken Kaiser is challenging the validity of the Major League Baseball Players Association survey that rated him the worst umpire in the American League.

"I seriously question how many players actually participated," Kaiser told the Rochester Democrat and Chronicle.

While working his last game of the exhibition season in Florida on Tuesday, he said several players told him they hadn't even received the survey. Scrawling some of the biggest names in baseball on a piece of paper -- names like Mark McGwire, Cal Ripken Jr. and Sammy Sosa -- he declared:

"If any of them tells you I'm the worst umpire in the American League, I'll retire on the spot."

Kaiser said he thinks the survey was a grandstanding attempt by union head Donald Fehr to "show his players that he's sticking up for them."

Players rated umpires on physical condition, physical and mental toughness, accuracy of calls on the bases, accuracy of calls at the plate, consistency, temperament, respect for players and overall capacity.

Tim McClelland and Jerry Crawford were rated as baseball's top umpires. Charlie Williams was 36th and last in the National League. Kaiser was ranked last in five categories, including respect for the players and temperament.

Steve Howe can't avoid suspensions

WHITEFISH, Mont. -- Steve Howe, who was suspended seven times for drug and alcohol violations during his career as a big league pitcher, has been suspended as a volunteer coach for the Whitefish girls' softball team.

The Clarkston, Mich., native was told he could no longer help the team on which his daughter, Chelsi, is a second baseman, pending the outcome of a background check by the Whitefish administration.

"We're in the process of reviewing the information that goes along with Steve and his past," said school superintendent Dave Peters.

"We're trying to determine what is in the best interest of the district. It's a very difficult issue for us."

He said Howe may be reinstated after the check. Howe's past problems with drugs and alcohol are the focal point of the inquiry.

"Hopefully reasonable people can come to a reasonable solution," Howe said Wednesday night. "I'm kind of dumbfounded by the whole thing."

Muhammad Ali donates boxing ring

DOWAGIAC -- Muhammad Ali donated his old personal boxing ring to the Dowagiac Boxing Club, which aims to keep teen-agers off the streets.

It's a "vehicle to reach people," said club owner Larry Seurynck, a painting contractor who did some work at the Ali residence in Berrien Springs.

The club opened last month. Though boxing is the main draw, there will be a study area in the 4,200-square-foot gym, with plans to bring in tutors and a counselor.

Caption: AP FILE PHOTO On the run: Steve Scott is shown in this Jan. 1990 photo at the Millrose games in New York. Scott already has run more sub-4-minute miles than anyone in history. His goal now is to become the oldest runner to do it. Scott, who'll be 43 May 5, will make the attempt April 24, 1999 at the Drake Relays.

Eamonn Coughlan broke 4:00 when he was 40. I believe he was the first masters runner to break 4:00.

Martin wrote:

Am I wrong in thinking that Steve Scott ran faster than four minutes in his mid to late 30s? I was under the impression he was the oldest American to break four.

Martin

They're talking about the oldest guy to break 4 FOR THE FIRST TIME. Scott had dipped under 4 a few times already...

Alan Webb

Ah .. a different issue altogether. I seem to be a bit slow on the uptake today.

Thanks

Martin

John Walker must have been old by his last Sub 4.00-almost 40. Kind of off the topic of oldest to run first sub 4.00.

I seem to be hearing/reading about a young man, Tony Young who is 41 years old that is trying, and emphasize trying to break 4 minutes for the first time. I believe he was a 4:02 or so miler in college. He seems to have the right combination of speed (800) and strength (5000), that Steve Scott talks about in his article?! I know of a 4:07 recently, and he seems to run the 3k distance well. It would be neat to see someone do this, especially an American!

Tony ran 3:46.3 for the 1500 this season, then was turned down by the Pre Meet--where the tradition and fans might have brought him through for sub-4. Hopefully, Tony will be at the same level next year ... and maybe Pre will give him a chance (instead of letting another 4:10 HS miler in).

Hey Scott, I remember you from coming to the Nike runs awhile back. Glad to see you got some good training partners and a fire under your ass. Good Luck with it.

OK people, I don't know how many people are understanding my question. I don't want to hear about Steve Scott, I want to hear about some "noname" guy that was a good to average runner, but trained intensely, and broke 4:00 FOR THE FIRST TIME, at say age 33. That would be something sweet to find out, who is the oldest first time sub 4:00 guy?

JT what's up? Yeah I got Richardson out there leading up to Penn, but since then we've been on different schedules and don't seem to run together. Are you still running? Did you hear Welsh ran a 2:41 debut at Grandma's.

Mike, hey, those Niketown runs were cool, but wish I had more people to run with. The free fruit and bagels were nice though :)

the answer IS george young.

If you go here

http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~rsparks/sub4.htm

you will find a list of every athlete who has run sub-4 (up to 31/12/2002), when they first ran sub-4 and what their subsequent PB was. Sadly it doesn't list their ages, but it might still be helpful.