........PSAC.......

Really? Idiot? 10:00 at Penn State will convert to 10:09. Call it what you will it is a penalty. The indexing (conversion chart for other idiots like myself) was adjusted in such away to give an advantage to flat tracks and the bulk of the athletes who don't have access to oversize/banked tracks. How much would you wager the faster time comes out of Bucknell? Not sure which team but I bet on the list it will be from a flat track.

Since you have had 1 too many, let me share with you where these conversions from from:

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/NCAA%2BIndoor%2BTrack%2BFacility%2BIndexing%2BConversion%2BSummary.pdf

Please read the whole PDF to understand that these conversions are based on thousands upon thousands of results and have been proven to be equal. So once the races are ran the conversions will clearly show who ran the fastest once they are equalized based on the track they were run on. How you rationalized that they were giving an "adavantage" to flat track is beyond belief. I guess maybe you are part of this entitlement generation and it just wasn't fair that these big schools (other poorly funded D2 programs) got to run on "Nice banked tracks" so we must punish them!!

IDIOT!

One further part. If Ship runs 10:00 at PSU it will convert to 10:08.16 not 10:09

IDIOT

Wow you are right I am so stupid. Of course I would not know things like: the study failed to take into account when the races were run, failed to take into account "cluster meets" like New Balance, Boston, National Invite, which draw the faster athletes to them while meets like Bucknell are left with he "regulars." I wouldn't not know that there used to be conversions for banked and oversized and that they were different conversions then the ones we use now. I wouldn't know that there were different conversions for D1 and D2. I wouldn't know the impetus behind the change was to have standard conversions. I wouldn't know the people who did the conversion intended to skew those times more. I wouldn't know that most coaches believe the advantage is to the flat track. So, there you go I am stupid.

For one thing they used performances from the entire season as one pool of data and results from mid season and compared them and found no significant difference. So they do take into account "cluster" meets. IDIOT

Just because a coach thinks they favor flat tracks doesn't mean squat. Its pure and simple. Based on every single performance over the past 5 years these conversions prove statistically confident to be equal. It doesn't matter at all what a coach think.

There was never a method intended to SKEW conversions. They did the best they could with the limited data before and now with better technology and the use of tfrrs and other stats websites they are able to create a actual conversion using regression analysis to create the coefficients of the equations. Thus an accurate equality factor.

IDIOT

Congrats to Haven on their 10:08.63 (Russell posted splits of 3:06, 51.5, 1:85.5, and 4:12.3) at Bucknell followed by Mansfield at 10:14.09.

Ship ran 10:06.04 (Reported splits of 3:05, 48, 1:55, and 4:15) at PSU which converts to 10:14ish so them and Mansfield ran pretty similar and Lock Haven showed to be the top performer for the day. The big difference between Ship and Lock Haven right now is anchor legs. Monroe's 4:12 converts to about 4:08 which compared to ships anchor of 4:15 stands out pretty drastically.

Any other big performances so far?

Our guys splits were Mike: 3:01 then 51.5 followed by 1:58.5 and a 4:23.

chicken mcguggest wrote:

Congrats to Haven on their 10:08.63 (Russell posted splits of 3:06, 51.5, 1:85.5, and 4:12.3) at Bucknell followed by Mansfield at 10:14.09.

Ship ran 10:06.04 (Reported splits of 3:05, 48, 1:55, and 4:15) at PSU which converts to 10:14ish so them and Mansfield ran pretty similar and Lock Haven showed to be the top performer for the day. The big difference between Ship and Lock Haven right now is anchor legs. Monroe's 4:12 converts to about 4:08 which compared to ships anchor of 4:15 stands out pretty drastically.

Any other big performances so far?

The 3:01 on a flat track is fast!

10:14.09 10:14.29

Fastest time from Bucknell

Not such an idiot after all

Sure looks like a penalty to me

What was proven was Ship right now is about equal to Mansfield and LH is the best team in the PSAC in the DMR. It has nothing to do with what track they ran on. The conversions are proven over 5 years worth of Data. If the only thing you factored in was this "penalty" than yes you are still and idiot. Maybe what you should have factored in was LH has a great anchor leg from Monroe and Mansfield has the best miler/800 runner in the conference leading off for them.

Looks like all three teams need to get back to training and go after another qualifying mark and hopefully we can get a team under 10:00 min.

one more wrote:

Nick Gibson, watch out

Good call on Gibson, he is running well for himself and I see room for improvement with him yet as well. While Ship's DMR did not "tank", its clearly not at a national level.

The PSAC schools always go for broke at PSU... so there's no doubt the Ship team was trying to roll one out. I am not in any way trying to discredit the potential of Ship's DMR but just thought it was rather arrogant for those guys to make such bold claims and statements back in the early season, with no recent performances to back those statements up. This arrogance is unwarranted and classless. Much respect to the LHU and MU for working hard, getting the job done and running with class.

I'm excited to watch the DMR at PSACs to see how this one plays out - It should be another epic race. Lets make some early picks.

1. LHU - 10:02

2. MU - 10:03

3. SU - 10:07

I highly doubt anybody actually competing for Ship posts on these message boards. It's most likely alumni that are trolling you folks...

I would be curious to know why Mansfield led off with their strongest leg.

I am kind of curious also about that. Robinson should have been able to run 4:10-12 with Monroe where their anchor leg ran 4:23. Most likely a guy that can run 4:23 will run around 3:08? So if the switch was done their overall time may have run closer to 10:10. Maybe the goal was to get Robinson out front so that their team would be in the race throughout and they may get better performances out of everybody else if they were put in a pressure type situation.

They probably put him first to keep them in the race. Just look at he splits if you woulda swithed it mike would have been in no mans land running the anchor leg by himself.

Mike Rob Mansfield 4:07 mile. Wow he is very fit right now. Can Mansfields DMR maybe win conferences with him anchoring? Libbi for ship 14:42 will he win the 5k if Monroe wouldn't run it to run the DMR?

PSAC Also wrote:

I am kind of curious also about that. Robinson should have been able to run 4:10-12 with Monroe where their anchor leg ran 4:23. Most likely a guy that can run 4:23 will run around 3:08? So if the switch was done their overall time may have run closer to 10:10. Maybe the goal was to get Robinson out front so that their team would be in the race throughout and they may get better performances out of everybody else if they were put in a pressure type situation.

We ran Mike on the opener for two reasons. First we wanted to give our 400 and 800 legs clear tracks to run on. We are 51 and 1:57 on good days so every little bit helps. We felt that Monroe, who is very good at even pace, would catch the team and our anchor would get dragged along. To some extent that happened.

The second is this. I try to be very careful with all out efforts with my top kids and we do a lot of very scripted races. I wanted Mike to continue building confidence going into Boston. Keeping in mind he has done one mile before this and only 4 1500's. Running 3:01 gave him that confidence and he followed up with a 1:57 lead off leg the next day of a 4*800 where he went 60-29./27. This seemed to work because Mike ended up leading his heat in Boston to get it going. But he remained calm and confident because of the experience with the lead off and finished well. We will decide, as a team, what we will do with the DMR later on. As always we will be pretty open about our intentions and let the racing take care of itself. I write because many of you know Mike and if you know his story you know how much he has overcome to get to where he is right now. We wish you all the best, keep training hard and stay focused on your goals.

Coach just emailed us... Conference is being moved to Bucknell. No heat in the Dome.

bunches of oats wrote:

Coach just emailed us... Conference is being moved to Bucknell. No heat in the Dome.

I hope this is true bc the bubble sucks anyways