Drop all the insider info you have!
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Does Cornell (men or women) have a shot this year?
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Men’s side Princeton lost a lot. Harvard lost Ben Rosa and the best ever to run XC in Ivy League. Could be Cornell’s year.
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Llaoapalabbaqq wrote:
Men’s side Princeton lost a lot. Harvard lost Ben Rosa and the best ever to run XC in Ivy League. Could be Cornell’s year.
Harvard recruited the 2024 Foot Locker XC Champ. Full recruiting class in link below.The Princeton women announced their recruiting class 2 weeks ago, but the men's recruiting class hasn't been announced yet. Princeton has a better development history though for the whole team rather than select individuals.I cannot find any other recruiting class announcements at this time.
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Dartmouth just landed an 8:53 two-miler — hoping Ben True can use that momentum to strengthen the squad this year.
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Here's the Dartmouth men's press release about their incoming class. Nothing yet on their women.
Yale announced both recruiting classes. They got a strong middle distance girl from Czechia (2:08/4:37) and some indoor All-Americans in the 5k. Both teams have some good sprinters coming in too.
women -men -40 -
Meanwhile, one Columbia recruit I know about is the NBN hammer throw champion (Mia Hoskins, Coventry RI - 188-08 PR).
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Dartmouth women have announced their incoming class:
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Cornell shared their incoming class on multiple Instagram/FB posts this past week (but not through their official athletics website yet)
Post 1:Post 2:Post 3:Post 4:It's interesting to see they got a UConn transfer (Griffin Mandirola, 1500/SC, ‘28)
Penn and Brown haven't done formal announcements, but their 2025 XC rosters have been updated and they include freshmen (Penn bios not filled out yet [only name and HS available] but the Brown ones are filled out).
Penn Men -Penn women -Brown men -Brown women -Nothing yet from Columbia. Princeton's men roster was updated, but no freshmen are listed.
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Wow. Thanks.
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Princeton men announced their incoming class today.
Includes Australian U20 1500 national champion
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The Ivies all raced each other Friday at Princeton besides Harvard and Brown
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The X-C records for 5 mi. and 8k at Van Cortlandt are confusing. I have uncovered some times from memory and from research, but if anyone can add to or correct what I have, it would be helpful.
Dave Merrick (Penn) ran 23:51 at the 1975 IC4A when the course was rocky, rutted and tree rooted. Charlie Bevier (ex Syracuse) running with Westchester -Puma in a dual meet against Princeton and Siena did 23:48.6 (rounded to 23:49)on the same course in around 1982 (Mike Barnow is checking).
After the course was smoothed out and shortened to 8k, Martin Fagan (Providence) went 23:48 at the Big East on Oct. 28, 2005.
I have consulted Murphy, Bloom, Malley, Ogilvie, Barnow, and Treacy and none of them knows of anything faster.
This season Hogan has run 22:58 and 23:00 on faster courses and Nenow has gone 23:00 and 23:04 in the same races.(Princeton Fall Classic and Gans Creek). If Gavenas (23:42 at Nuttycombe) pushes them, the Van Cortlandt records could be lowered.
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Hugh. This is the thread we spoke about yesterday. You have everything. Bless you kind sir.
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I found the XC record book on the Ivy League website, and they have a listing of top 8km times from HepsXC (last updated for the 2024 season). Unfortunately, they do not note where the times were run. You'd have to go back to earlier pages to see year-by-year results. In 2022, Acer Iverson ran 23:59.3 at VCP.
In good news - the live results page is available for viewing.
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BRF wrote:
Does Cornell (men or women) have a shot this year?
No.
I haven't been following it but it's certainly a two-team league on the men's side once again. Harvard and Princeton are WAY better than everyone else.
Wow, I just looked up some results. I just had to bold that sentence in the 1st paragraph.
For the men, bascially all of the Ivies save for Brown (who I assume will be last as if you put 7 non-runners out on the course and have them walk it, you score 260 points.- Brown scored 257 last year.) and Harvard (who will be 1st or 2nd) were at Princeton last week and Princeton put 6 ahead of Yale's #2 and Yale was the 2nd Ivy.. Cornell was a clear 3rd Ivy. Princeton has like 7-8 guys ahead of Columbia, Penn and Dartmouth's #1?
So for the men, it looks like it will be
Princeton/Harvard
Yale
Cornell
Everyone elseIf you scored only the Ivy Runners at Princeton, it went like this (if Grok is correct).
Princeton,18
Yale,69
Cornell,100
Penn,106
Columbia,112
Dartmouth,121The question is who wins Harvard or Princeton. I'm sure Gibby and Vig are analyzing it to death. At surface level it looks like a coin toss. Princeton is 19th nationally. Harvard 21st.
Check this stat out. At Gains Greek, Princeton scored scored 412 and beat Stanford by 39. At Nuttycombe, Harvard scored 411 and beat Stanford by 32. Nearly identical. (Were all the teams running full squads, Stanford, etc. I have no idea).
For the women, Penn beat edged Harvard at Paul Short (with Yale, Cornell and Brown much farther back). At Princeton last week, Princeton killed Penn (Yale was right behind Penn). So I think it's Princeton. Harvard went to Nuttycombe and was like 4th to last and l ost to some teams that Princeton beat.
No team is nationally ranked but I'm surprised Princeton isn't at least getting some votes.
So I think it's
Princeton
Penn
Harvard/Yale
Cornell/Columbia (1 point apart last week)
Dartmouth
BrownThis post was edited 4 hours after it was posted.60 -
rojo wrote:
BRF wrote:
Does Cornell (men or women) have a shot this year?
No.
I haven't been following it but it's certainly a two-team league on the men's side once again. Harvard and Princeton are WAY better than everyone else.
Wow, I just looked up some results. I just had to bold that sentence in the 1st paragraph.
For the men, bascially all of the Ivies save for Brown (who I assume will be last as if you put 7 non-runners out on the course and have them walk it, you score 260 points.- Brown scored 257 last year.) and Harvard (who will be 1st or 2nd) were at Princeton last week and Princeton put 6 ahead of Yale's #2 and Yale was the 2nd Ivy.. Cornell was a clear 3rd Ivy. Princeton has like 7-8 guys ahead of Columbia, Penn and Dartmouth's #1?
So for the men, it looks like it will be
Princeton/Harvard
Yale
Cornell
Everyone elseIf you scored only the Ivy Runners at Princeton, it went like this (if Grok is correct).
Princeton,18
Yale,69
Cornell,100
Penn,106
Columbia,112
Dartmouth,121The question is who wins Harvard or Princeton. I'm sure Gibby and Vig are analyzing it to death. At surface level it looks like a coin toss. Princeton is 19th nationally. Harvard 21st.
Check this stat out. At Gains Greek, Princeton scored scored 412 and beat Stanford by 39. At Nuttycombe, Harvard scored 411 and beat Stanford by 32. Nearly identical. (Were all the teams running full squads, Stanford, etc. I have no idea).
For the women, Penn beat edged Harvard at Paul Short (with Yale, Cornell and Brown much farther back). At Princeton last week, Princeton killed Penn (Yale was right behind Penn). So I think it's Princeton. Harvard went to Nuttycombe and was like 4th to last and l ost to some teams that Princeton beat.
No team is nationally ranked but I'm surprised Princeton isn't at least getting some votes.
So I think it's
Princeton
Penn
Harvard/Yale
Cornell/Columbia (1 point apart last week)
Dartmouth
BrownStanford ran Dargan and Noonan at Nuttycombe, Bergeron and Topper at Gans Creek. Probably pretty comparable rosters as a whole
Harvard looks to have used their full squad, but I’m not 100% sure. No Brosnan, who I think is injured. Princeton didn’t run their full team at Gans Creek, but mostly did at home. From Gans Creek to Van Cortlandt, they’ll add Shorten (8:28 steepler) and Hayden Boaz (top recruit). McCormick also didn’t run phenomenally at Gans Creek but is trending up, so he should figure in the Tigers’ top 5. Princeton seems to be without Colin Boler and effectively without Weston Brown who was near the back at the fall classic
I’d say Princeton takes it again. Both teams have a strong top 2 who will probably all figure to be top 5 in the race, but I think Princeton has a lot better depth at the 3-7+ spots
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We raced the course a few weeks back (all but commentary). It is better than it was in the 90s and I presume the 70s, but it is in need of work. Some boulders and roots are starting to show and cause some issues. The large "steps" they have installed to stop erosion have huge drops on their back end at points as well. The course is in good shape, but not perfect. It will need some help in the coming years. That may affect the times a bit.
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Princeton may win again but this is going to be close. I know that Graham Blanks is without any question or debate the best Ivy League cross country runner winning two ncaa XC titles but Tam is going to be in the mix over the next four years and can win. He’s that good. We will see tomorrow. Graham did not win Heps until his JR year.
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Thank you, Merber for the link to the Heps XC record book. Around the time the Heps was rebranded "Ivy League" they stopped selling the excellent record book/program($1.00)at the meet.
The fastest Heps 8k at VCP is 23:59.3 by Iverson in 2022. The 23:59.6 by True in 2008 was on a course which omitted the back hills (as I recall).They were re-seeding the Parade Grounds so the start also had to be moved. At the 2022 awards ceremony, the announcer, ignorant of the significance of 23:59.3 at VCP, made no mention of it or of the remarkable mass finish.( Hogan only 18th in 24:27).
Since 2010, the Heps have been run at VCP only in 2015, 2017, 2019, and 2022. The report describing Fagans 2004 23:48 mentions an 8k course so it was 8k at least by 2004. The VCP Heps 5mi. record seems to be 24:08.1 by Chris Schille in 1987. The Iverson 23:59.3 is a little better than a 24:08 for 8045m. But horribile dictu, I fear that todays rain will make the course too wet for fast times.
My friend "Shoeless Tom" Hartschorne of the remarkable Masback, Trachtenberg, Cabell, Vander Kraats, Noden Princeton 1975 Heps Champions is certain that the course was bulldozed, widened,cindered and smoothed with a drainage system for the 1997 season.
This post was edited 7 minutes after it was posted. Reason provided: Hogan 24:47 in 2022.20
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