It’s not fair to expect the 5th guy on the XC team to be as motivated as a teammate that’s winning races, receiving lots of positive attention and might even be in line for a scholarship. You really expect a 6:00 guy to train hard even though there is almost no chance for them to ever run 4:30 or be in a relay? So long as they aren’t disrespecting you, they have every right to decide how much effort they want to put into the sport.
Given your handle, I wonder if you really believe that. Anyway if you want to be part of a team, race, and contribute then you need to do a bit of work, especially if you're the #5 guy on a XC team.
My son who is on strava is just as impressed by the jv CBA kids as their best runners. For whatever reason he and some friends who didn't break 22 minutes in their first year of XC want to be good. He is an example of a kid who barely broke 6 in his first indoor 1600 to 4:48 in just over a year and he and a few others remind the younger teammates that they can also do well if they choose to put in the work.
He doesn't expect to run 4:20 as your handle states (I'm aware of the quote) but there's still pride in the effort for him and a few others. Some of the younger kids are taking the advice and are motivated to work while of course many are not putting in any effort. His coach provides a welcoming environment and no one is shunned for not working hard but there is more pride and effort than ever. And it is because of Strava and the internet.
“Some of the younger kids are taking the advice and are motivated to work while of course many are not putting in any effort. His coach provides a welcoming environment and no one is shunned for not working hard but there is more pride and effort than ever.”
That’s exactly how it should be and I wouldn’t define that as holding someone accountable. I really don’t how Strava has anything to do with it. The attitude of my coach, many years ago, was very similar.
You say your son improved from 6:00 to 4:48, but wasn’t it ultimately his decision to put in the effort?
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
Given your handle, I wonder if you really believe that. Anyway if you want to be part of a team, race, and contribute then you need to do a bit of work, especially if you're the #5 guy on a XC team.
My son who is on strava is just as impressed by the jv CBA kids as their best runners. For whatever reason he and some friends who didn't break 22 minutes in their first year of XC want to be good. He is an example of a kid who barely broke 6 in his first indoor 1600 to 4:48 in just over a year and he and a few others remind the younger teammates that they can also do well if they choose to put in the work.
He doesn't expect to run 4:20 as your handle states (I'm aware of the quote) but there's still pride in the effort for him and a few others. Some of the younger kids are taking the advice and are motivated to work while of course many are not putting in any effort. His coach provides a welcoming environment and no one is shunned for not working hard but there is more pride and effort than ever. And it is because of Strava and the internet.
“Some of the younger kids are taking the advice and are motivated to work while of course many are not putting in any effort. His coach provides a welcoming environment and no one is shunned for not working hard but there is more pride and effort than ever.”
That’s exactly how it should be and I wouldn’t define that as holding someone accountable. I really don’t how Strava has anything to do with it. The attitude of my coach, many years ago, was very similar.
As others pointed out, strava allows them to see what their competitors are doing and I know that my son is motivated and understands what others are doing and what HSers can do. He believes he's ready to put in some 50 mile weeks this summer and can eventually do a workout of 3 or 4 x a mile in 5:40 which is sonething he would have never thought possible.
Regarding "accountability" strava cuts down on excuses. Each runner knows how teammates are training. A kid can't say I don't know why I'm not improving when it's obvious by looking at his training log. If you want to be part of an invitational relay you better be working toward that goal.
“Some of the younger kids are taking the advice and are motivated to work while of course many are not putting in any effort. His coach provides a welcoming environment and no one is shunned for not working hard but there is more pride and effort than ever.”
That’s exactly how it should be and I wouldn’t define that as holding someone accountable. I really don’t how Strava has anything to do with it. The attitude of my coach, many years ago, was very similar.
As others pointed out, strava allows them to see what their competitors are doing and I know that my son is motivated and understands what others are doing and what HSers can do. He believes he's ready to put in some 50 mile weeks this summer and can eventually do a workout of 3 or 4 x a mile in 5:40 which is sonething he would have never thought possible.
Regarding "accountability" strava cuts down on excuses. Each runner knows how teammates are training. A kid can't say I don't know why I'm not improving when it's obvious by looking at his training log. If you want to be part of an invitational relay you better be working toward that goal.
For the slow-twitch, strength runners, relays aren’t much of a motivation. The faster kids can run the 4X800, the DM, the sprint medley and maybe even the 4x400. The strength guys will be fighting for one spot on the DM. I didn’t like the relay meets and if there was a 2-mile available, I would run that instead of anchoring a mediocre DM team.
There was no Strava available when I ran, but if a teammate told me he was running x miles per day, I certainly wouldn’t have thought he could be lying about it. My teammates knew knew I was running doubles, but it didn’t motivate them to do the same.
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
I think the idea that you can see what your peers are doing is a big motivator. I know it is for my middle school aged daughter.
You’re implying that the elite runners from the past were doing some secret workout, but almost all of them would have shared their workout details, if asked. If they had any clue at all, they would know that their advice, without the requisite talent, would not being creating rivals.
I believe the huge increase in the number of HS 4:00 and sub-8:40 guys, is that there has been a significant increase in the number guys, with the talent to run those times, being drawn to the sport.
This post was edited 8 minutes after it was posted.
I believe the huge increase in the number of HS 4:00 and sub-8:40 guys, is that there has been a significant increase in the number guys, with the talent to run those times, being drawn to the sport.
Sorry, but no. Less talented kids making into running than ever, since they're being siphoned off by year round soccer, lacrosse, even girls wrestling. We've been getting more from less talent, and as another poster noted, it is off putting to see your arguments made from the handle "4:20 is not that fast."
In my experience strava is making them worse. Too many are running too fast on their easy days and destroying workouts for some kudos. Come race day they got nothing left to show.
How big of a role has specialization in sport played in the level of high school competition?
Go back 20-30 years not many people were training year round for track/cross country. People in small schools would also play basketball and or baseball, or some other sport. Now everyone goes all in on a sport, and more of them at the same school, and they train year round. And they're doing good training, because it's easy to see what other people are doing on the internet. Just do what the fastest person does and you'll probably get pretty fast too. And also it seems fewer high schoolers now work jobs after school in the evenings, making them have more time to focus on their sport.
In my experience strava is making them worse. Too many are running too fast on their easy days and destroying workouts for some kudos. Come race day they got nothing left to show.
Clearly runners aren't worst than in the past as a quick look at results in pretty much any distance event in any state will show. So are you saying they'd be faster without Strava? That doesn't make sense.
In my experience strava is making them worse. Too many are running too fast on their easy days and destroying workouts for some kudos. Come race day they got nothing left to show.
Clearly runners aren't worst than in the past as a quick look at results in pretty much any distance event in any state will show. So are you saying they'd be faster without Strava? That doesn't make sense.
Not every high school runner has strava. The ones that do in my experience could be better if they cared more about their racing then their strava uploads
I believe the huge increase in the number of HS 4:00 and sub-8:40 guys, is that there has been a significant increase in the number guys, with the talent to run those times, being drawn to the sport.
Sorry, but no. Less talented kids making into running than ever, since they're being siphoned off by year round soccer, lacrosse, even girls wrestling. We've been getting more from less talent, and as another poster noted, it is off putting to see your arguments made from the handle "4:20 is not that fast."
There are no studies of percentage of talented runners competing in XC/Track so your opinion is no less speculative than mine.
It’s just a popular quote and using it as a handle doesn’t mean I agree with it. There is an LR poster with the handle “Armstonglivs” and if you read his posts it’s pretty clear he’s no fan of Lance. You probably made your comment as a result of the lunatic that’s been stalking me.
I understand your point and often tell my son that the reason some of his teammates are getting hurt is because they're overtraining as they try to replicate what the best runners are doing.
I understand your point and often tell my son that the reason some of his teammates are getting hurt is because they're overtraining as they try to replicate what the best runners are doing.
What percent of kids would one expect to get injured training for distance? Not zero right?
“Some of the younger kids are taking the advice and are motivated to work while of course many are not putting in any effort. His coach provides a welcoming environment and no one is shunned for not working hard but there is more pride and effort than ever.”
That’s exactly how it should be and I wouldn’t define that as holding someone accountable. I really don’t how Strava has anything to do with it. The attitude of my coach, many years ago, was very similar.
As others pointed out, strava allows them to see what their competitors are doing and I know that my son is motivated and understands what others are doing and what HSers can do. He believes he's ready to put in some 50 mile weeks this summer and can eventually do a workout of 3 or 4 x a mile in 5:40 which is sonething he would have never thought possible.
Regarding "accountability" strava cuts down on excuses. Each runner knows how teammates are training. A kid can't say I don't know why I'm not improving when it's obvious by looking at his training log. If you want to be part of an invitational relay you better be working toward that goal.
Before Strava, HS runners trained, raced and improved. With similar training, just about all of the 1st year runners at my school improved by at least a minute for 2 miles, by the end of the season. The difference was a result of the level of natural ability, and knowing that a teammate could run faster didn’t make any difference.
I understand your point and often tell my son that the reason some of his teammates are getting hurt is because they're overtraining as they try to replicate what the best runners are doing.
What percent of kids would one expect to get injured training for distance? Not zero right?
True, but if you're fairly new to the sport and are running 20 miles a week it doesn't make sense to look what the CBA kids are doing then attempt 3+ miles of rep work. My son's teammates have foolishly done this and have gotten hurt.
What percent of kids would one expect to get injured training for distance? Not zero right?
True, but if you're fairly new to the sport and are running 20 miles a week it doesn't make sense to look what the CBA kids are doing then attempt 3+ miles of rep work. My son's teammates have foolishly done this and have gotten hurt.
As others pointed out, strava allows them to see what their competitors are doing and I know that my son is motivated and understands what others are doing and what HSers can do. He believes he's ready to put in some 50 mile weeks this summer and can eventually do a workout of 3 or 4 x a mile in 5:40 which is sonething he would have never thought possible.
Regarding "accountability" strava cuts down on excuses. Each runner knows how teammates are training. A kid can't say I don't know why I'm not improving when it's obvious by looking at his training log. If you want to be part of an invitational relay you better be working toward that goal.
Before Strava, HS runners trained, raced and improved. With similar training, just about all of the 1st year runners at my school improved by at least a minute for 2 miles, by the end of the season. The difference was a result of the level of natural ability, and knowing that a teammate could run faster didn’t make any difference.
Yet in a previous page you stated that you can't expect a 6 minute miler to get to 4:30 or be part of a relay.
Before Strava, HS runners trained, raced and improved. With similar training, just about all of the 1st year runners at my school improved by at least a minute for 2 miles, by the end of the season. The difference was a result of the level of natural ability, and knowing that a teammate could run faster didn’t make any difference.
Yet in a previous page you stated that you can't expect a 6 minute miler to get to 4:30 or be part of a relay.
Huh? With, or without Stava, it’s unlikely a 6:00 minute miler will improve to 4:30 and be good enough to run in a relay. He would have to leapfrog several teammates to do so. Knowing precisely how faster teammates are training won’t make any difference. I had a teammate that topped out at about 65 seconds for 400m, and he never ran in a track relay in HS.
True, but if you're fairly new to the sport and are running 20 miles a week it doesn't make sense to look what the CBA kids are doing then attempt 3+ miles of rep work. My son's teammates have foolishly done this and have gotten hurt.
Doesn’t the coach dictate the workouts?
Regarding my son and his team, I previously stated that the coach doesn't do anything and that I believe the difference between the last 2 years and prior years is strava which has motivated these kids to cease being pitiful. The coach works with jumpers and throwers and allows the kids to do their own running workouts. 2 years ago he had the new kids do 10 minute continuous runs, stretch while he talked and motivated them, run again and then go home. Now, those with strava look at other programs and train better. My son and a few friends train smarter and more conservatively than the seniors who have never had a year without injuries.
These kids can you tell you about Niwot, Herriman, CBA and other programs even though their coach doesn't travel 10 miles away from school for a meet.
So again, I can't speak for other programs but the internet, social media, and in this case Strava has helped elevate this team.