200m & 3k time trials during the summer for 800m runner?

As long as you don't take it too seriously then I don't see why not. Remember, your season doesn't begin for another 7-8 months so take it easy.

This is different from how a lot of people train their 800m guys, but I like doing top end speed and a bit of speed endurance with easy base building in the summer, so lots of strides, workouts like 4x50m-4x150m and 6x200m all with long rest varying from all out to 800m pace. Once every week or two rip a hard 400m or 200m, doesn’t need to be a huge deal where you go to bed early the night before and spend 2 hours warming up thing, more like finish an easy 5 miler and go to the track and see how fast you can run that day. I think late fall/early winter is where you wanna start adding in more Vo2max and longer 800/mile paced workouts which sets you up to want to see where your mile/3k pace is at, now that you’ve got your shorter stuff right.

Not a bad idea, under and overdistance tests at the same time is a nice way to see where you're at on both ends before you bring them together later on.

However, imo 4:04 / 15:46 means 9:15 3k is quite a soft goal, I'd say 9:05 or under is more like it even if you aren't in peak shape. Although, are you gonna do those TTs solo?

yeah I guess you're right I could probably aim a bit higher for the 3k but I would be doing these alone. maybe I'd race my younger brother in the 200 cause he's got some wheels and it'd be very close but the 3k I'd almost certainly do alone.

so you wouldn't recommend a lot of aerobic work through the summer? I had planned on cycling through 5 workout types every 2 weeks : tempo, 5k pace reps (fartlek or 600m-1k), short speed work (on the track or hill), long hill sprints (speed endurance), mile/3k paced reps (200-400m). So one week I'd do 3 workouts alternated with a week I do 2. in season I do 3 or 2 and a race. I don't want to cook myself, but I also want to come into the fall with some meaningful gains made.

My college coach has a phrase “less is often more” when it comes to training 800m guys.

A guy he’s coaching who just ran the trials standard in the 800m this week and who has run 3:44 in the 1500m and 47 in the 400m has a summer week to week that looks something like this:

Mon: 4-6 miles moderate, usually 6:20-6:40 type pace. 4-5 100m strides or 50m hills

Tues: 12x100m steadily progressing from 18s to 11s w/ 300m easy easy jog for recovery

Wed: 4-6 miles easy, usually 7:00-7:30 pace, 100mish grass strides around 3:50-4:00 pace

Thurs: 4-6 miles easy + 4-5x50m flys

Fri: 5-4-3-2-1 fartlek progressing from 5:30ish pace to 4:50ish pace w/ 1:1 uptempo jogging rest around 7:30-8:00 pace

Sat: 6-8 miles easy

Sun: off or cross train

Once it’s about the middle of XC season he starts doing things like 5-6x800m at goal 3k w/1:1 rest and 12x400m working down from goal 5k to goal mile pace (72-59 for him)

My broscience take on why this is so successful (it is successful, I broke 1:50 doing this structure on 60-70 mile weeks, and many others have done so doing 35-45 following this program) is because you are able to have much better speed adaptation when you aren’t stressing your body in every direction, and if you have a decent aerobic base it gives you a speed endurance buffer once it’s time to start doing longer reps. You’ll feel like you’re jogging at +\- 5:00 pace and relaxed at +\- 4:00 pace if you’re used to months of training at 2:50-3:30 pace, and it’s just a matter of jumpstarting your high end aerobic systems.

interesting stuff. I like the density of "speed" work, and he's actually sprinting like 2-3 times a week from that schedule. I'm impressed that you managed to pack on miles upwards of 60 on that schedule without sacrificing some of the faster running. I'll reassess some of the stuff I have written out, I feel like the schedules aren't too different I just may have been too focused on getting everything in when I don't have to yet. I think I could still pretty easily put a TT in place of a speed day or fartlek whenever I felt up to it (on the schedule you wrote out)

For sure, for me the mileage was necessary because I’ve only run a 49 high in the 400m and that’s pretty close to the bare minimum to be breaking 1:50, and I also just enjoy getting out and running an easy 10 miler a few times per week. If you decide to take a higher mileage approach, understand most of my easy mileage days where I was putting up double digits were 7:30-8:00 pace when I was able to dip under 15:00 for a 5k time trial later that fall, so really not pushing it at all whatsoever.

I remember one day finishing an easy 10 miler that year, immediately throwing some spikes on and ripping a 300m in 37-38, it’s a HUGE confidence booster when you can get into the kind of shape where you can run 10 miles, feel completely unfatigued and then crush a hard sprint afterwards. My 400m PB at the time was 53.x but I knew I was gonna break 50 that year.