Are you capable of squatting 2.5 x body weight? Great, you are an athlete. Are you capable of squatting x 2 body weight? If so, good job. Are you capable of squatting 1.5 x body weight? Not bad for a man. Are you capable of squatting 1 x body weight? Good job for a woman.
I always saw weight lifting as a means to an end for real athletes not the definition of a real athlete (other than lifting sports, obvious).
Agonists during the Back Squat: gluteus maximus, rectus femoris, vastus lateralis, vastus medialis oblique, vastus intermedius
Agonists during the Deadlift: erector spinae, biceps femoris, semitendinosus, and the semimembranosus, gluteus maximus,
The deadlift is not really a glute exercise. It is more of a back exercise (erector spinae). Of course this all changes slightly as you go up and down in intensity. The squat also changes a lot depending on intensity and range of motion.
Alan
No hammies in squats
Alan, according to your post, no mention of hamstrings in the Back Squat. Is the implication that they are also strengthened in this movement, but as an eccentric contraction?
Squats and deadlifts are both good with hexbar deadlifts probably being the ideal choice for a runner. Single leg squats are important, too.
It's less about which specific lifts are the best, though, and more about creating a resistance training regime that incorporates multi-joint movements that coordinate the core and hip musculature and also integrate lower leg strengthening for injury prevention.
When I see a video come up of an elite in the weight room, I've seen lots of them doing squats but can't recall seeing any doing deadlifts (just my experience, of course). I know that deadlifts work the lats much more, which seems counter-productive, so maybe that's part of it. Then again, maybe deadlifts have benefits for us that squats don't. Any expert thoughts on this? I'm thinking about alternating deadlifts and squats in my rotation just to vary the stimuli.
I've only injured myself twice in the gym. Once was 7 years ago deadlifting, and messed up my lower back (I was more of a bodybuilder then and had great PR's). Thankfully it wasn't bad enough for surgery but damn did it suck for a few weeks.
Second time was a month ago deadlifting, and I messed up my lower back (I'm more of a runner first now and weight room guy second). Thankfully it wasn't bad enough for surgery but damn did it suck for a few weeks.
It's not going to happen a third time. I officially retire the deadlift in my routine. This Friday evening I'll be softly playing taps on my harmonica in its memory
When I see a video come up of an elite in the weight room, I've seen lots of them doing squats but can't recall seeing any doing deadlifts (just my experience, of course). I know that deadlifts work the lats much more, which seems counter-productive, so maybe that's part of it. Then again, maybe deadlifts have benefits for us that squats don't. Any expert thoughts on this? I'm thinking about alternating deadlifts and squats in my rotation just to vary the stimuli.
Both work the legs but squats are a fair bit more leg and glute dominant compared to deadlifts that work most of the posterior chain, so if you hypothetically had to pick just one for improving running strength deficits, it would likely be squats.
The squat is a push movement whereas the deadlift is a pull. Pushing with your legs is more functional training for running. Especially single leg squats, step ups, and lunges.
you are doing your deadlifts wrong. Deadlight is mostly glutes with a little upper core. Both need to be strong for good running.
The squat is a push movement whereas the deadlift is a pull. Pushing with your legs is more functional training for running. Especially single leg squats, step ups, and lunges.
The deadlift is a hip hinge activity, one of the fundamental human movements for health and performance.
The squat is a push movement whereas the deadlift is a pull. Pushing with your legs is more functional training for running. Especially single leg squats, step ups, and lunges.
The deadlift is a hip hinge activity, one of the fundamental human movements for health and performance.
Ehhh... I highly doubt Jim Thorpe, Jim Brown, Jim Ryun, Bill Russell, or Oscar Robertson ever did a single barbell deadlift. Keeping your knees locked while picking an object off the ground isn't necessary or beneficial in any fundamental sense. Its not a typical movement in any major sport I am aware of.
The deadlift is a hip hinge activity, one of the fundamental human movements for health and performance.
Ehhh... I highly doubt Jim Thorpe, Jim Brown, Jim Ryun, Bill Russell, or Oscar Robertson ever did a single barbell deadlift. Keeping your knees locked while picking an object off the ground isn't necessary or beneficial in any fundamental sense. Its not a typical movement in any major sport I am aware of.
What Jim Thorpe or Jim Brown or Ryun or whoever did is kind of irrelevant. It's not hard to go back and look at some oldschool training and find things they did that were not beneficial. I remember reading some training from a competitive runner in the 19th century and it was like "Walk up hill 20 times with heavy backpack, eat 2lbs of salmon, 10 mile walk". Just because he was good, doesn't mean his training was good. This is not saying all their training is bad, and some of it is certainly fantastic.
Your knees should not be locked during a deadlift. Do you mean "locked" or do you mean stationary? Locked means they are totally straight. In an RDL your legs may stay relatively still, but they still bend. In a traditional deadlift, they move a good bit. Not as much as a squat. Arguing solely based on specificity isn't good. At no point does a sprinter throw anything overhead, but there's a lot of sprinters doing clean and jerks.
Maybe makes sense for them, but what makes sense for an elite runner doesn't necessarily make sense for others.
I'm a desk jockey hobby jogger, and when I started "racing" more at longer distances I ran into issues with being quad dominate and having a generally weaker posterior chain. I started doing more deadlifts (traditional, Romanian, and stiff legged) and squat with a wider stance to try and correct that. I also like deadlifts for non-running reasons, since they are more "functional" in that most heavy things I have to pick up are loaded in front of me, not on my back or to my sides.
The deadlift is a hip hinge activity, one of the fundamental human movements for health and performance.
Ehhh... I highly doubt Jim Thorpe, Jim Brown, Jim Ryun, Bill Russell, or Oscar Robertson ever did a single barbell deadlift. Keeping your knees locked while picking an object off the ground isn't necessary or beneficial in any fundamental sense. Its not a typical movement in any major sport I am aware of.
Can someone verify:
I thought I remember reading a story about Jim Ryun's first running-win was as a kid where he ran/walked a 10 mile road race and the prize was two 20 lbs dumbells that he incorporating into his early-life training regiment.
Is this an urban legend? Am I mis-remembering this?
Auxillary work. Whatever is on social media may be based on what image they are trying to put out there, availability. Strength work has so many theories that it really depends on who is prescribing the workouts. The Boss group does a lot of nonsensical trendy stuff. Bowerman seems to do the meat and potatoes. Boyle claims to no longer squat. The concentric hexbar deadlifts became super trendy a few years ago. However, this position does not work the posterior chain. A barbell deadlift is not advisable without proper form. Maybe just stick to running.
Are you capable of squatting 2.5 x body weight? Great, you are an athlete. Are you capable of squatting x 2 body weight? If so, good job. Are you capable of squatting 1.5 x body weight? Not bad for a man. Are you capable of squatting 1 x body weight? Good job for a woman.
Surely, you're not talking about competitive distance runners.
Make a Venn Diagram. Is it possible to be male and distance runner?
If male distance runner age 20 to 40, (115 to 165) lbs., unless injuries prevent, there is no reason not to squat 1.5 times body weight. For 150 lbs. male, that is only 225 lbs.
If you are a 150 lbs. male, age 20 to 40 and incapable of squatting 225 lbs., now you know.