Sub 4 in my 30s? Train me.

You need a wizard wrote:

TribalWarefare wrote:

Two questions- is it possible and what would the training look like?

I’m 34 and am currently running about 30mpw, trying to get a base back after intermittent running post college.

College PRs:

Mile: 4:09

5k 14:30

8k (XC) 23:50

10k: 29:50

I’ve always felt I left some on the table after college- guys who I consistently beat in college XC would all run 13:45-13:50 and be running 4:0x for the mile.

Wondering what’s possible for myself mid 30s if I give it a legitimate training cycle. I’m still decently fit, can run 10 miles at low 6 min pace and run 54 seconds for 400m off basically no mileage for the last 10 years. Intermittent weeks at 15-25mpw mostly.

I was a 4:25/9:22 kid in high school if that helps.

There is only one man on the boards capable of coaching you to a sub 4 min mile. The Wizard is your man.

TribalWarefare wrote:

high-powered biotech ceo wrote:

I'm way less talented than you (1.59/4.19/15.10/31.19/1.08 half) but in similar boat in that I feel like I left a lot on the table in my 20s, mainly due to injuries caused by my own stupidity in training.

If you have consistently take care of yourself, never got too out of shape (which it sounds like is the case), and can put together 3-4 years of insane consistency (ie do not get hurt at all costs), you can PR. And if you can PR, then you can dream about scaring 4min.

I'm 39 and since COVID have slowly turned my training from being recreational > racing-geared. My current workouts/measurables are better then when I set my 800/1600 prs as a 28yo grad student. Hopped in an 800 at a college meet for first time since 2014 this month & ran low 2. Just did 3x400 with 5min recovery at sub-60, so gunning for my 800 PR in some May/June open meets. It's fun. If you're having fun as you ratchet up the training, keep going!

This is motivating to hear! My weakness has always been consistency, and although I'm mentally tougher now I think that will still be my biggest battle. I'm slowly starting to get a base back though and am excited for some really good training blocks this summer.

Did a short progressive last week (610, 605, 555, 550, 540) and although I'm pleased based off of the 15mpw I've been running, it is a good reminder that I have a long ways to go.

total agreement wrote:

FutureOldHead wrote:

I'd argue that its actually a necessity to do this now if he wants to run fast in the future. in middle distance you need the body to be able to move fast, and to prepare it to do that you can't just do tempo runs. the best way to prevent injury from a particular activity is to strengthen your body's ability to handle that stimulus through frequent doses. I' say the injury risk is mainly higher in the late 20s-mid 30s range only because people usually stop training speed during those ages, not that your hamstrings betray you as soon as youre 27

He's only touching sub 4 pace and if he wants actually get sub-four, he needs to be able to hit 24 secs for 200m.

Eventually, he'll need to be running controlled 600s in less than 90 secs so this will help.

So long as he warms up, and his body can handle it, he should be working on speed.

I'm doing repeat 200s in 25 secs and I'm 45. And I will never approach even a 4:20 mile.

Recovery is where he needs to be careful.

high-powered biotech ceo wrote:

I'm way less talented than you (1.59/4.19/15.10/31.19/1.08 half) but in similar boat in that I feel like I left a lot on the table in my 20s, mainly due to injuries caused by my own stupidity in training.

If you have consistently take care of yourself, never got too out of shape (which it sounds like is the case), and can put together 3-4 years of insane consistency (ie do not get hurt at all costs), you can PR. And if you can PR, then you can dream about scaring 4min.

I'm 39 and since COVID have slowly turned my training from being recreational > racing-geared. My current workouts/measurables are better then when I set my 800/1600 prs as a 28yo grad student. Hopped in an 800 at a college meet for first time since 2014 this month & ran low 2. Just did 3x400 with 5min recovery at sub-60, so gunning for my 800 PR in some May/June open meets. It's fun. If you're having fun as you ratchet up the training, keep going!

jecht wrote:

high-powered biotech ceo wrote:

I'm way less talented than you (1.59/4.19/15.10/31.19/1.08 half) but in similar boat in that I feel like I left a lot on the table in my 20s, mainly due to injuries caused by my own stupidity in training.

If you have consistently take care of yourself, never got too out of shape (which it sounds like is the case), and can put together 3-4 years of insane consistency (ie do not get hurt at all costs), you can PR. And if you can PR, then you can dream about scaring 4min.

I'm 39 and since COVID have slowly turned my training from being recreational > racing-geared. My current workouts/measurables are better then when I set my 800/1600 prs as a 28yo grad student. Hopped in an 800 at a college meet for first time since 2014 this month & ran low 2. Just did 3x400 with 5min recovery at sub-60, so gunning for my 800 PR in some May/June open meets. It's fun. If you're having fun as you ratchet up the training, keep going!

How do you jump into a college meet unattached without any problems?

TribalWarefare wrote:

total agreement wrote:

He's only touching sub 4 pace and if he wants actually get sub-four, he needs to be able to hit 24 secs for 200m.

Eventually, he'll need to be running controlled 600s in less than 90 secs so this will help.

So long as he warms up, and his body can handle it, he should be working on speed.

I'm doing repeat 200s in 25 secs and I'm 45. And I will never approach even a 4:20 mile.

Recovery is where he needs to be careful.

To clarify, in the ~10 years or so off some of my intermittent running has been faster stuff on the track. I coach at a high school so occasionally I’ll jump in some 200s and do turf sprints etc so I’ve kept up my leg speed and am not doing anything where I’m afraid of straining hamstrings etc. I play a lot of frisbee and soccer too so in general as long as I warmup and recover adequately I don’t think I’m super high risk if I keep fast stuff in control.

similar boat wrote:

I was in kind of a similar situation to you, and a few things I encountered that I wasn't fully prepared for are:

1) I ran in college in a cold place, but fortunately we had an indoor track to use. I tried using a local college's flat track for a bit and it absolutely wrecked my ankles. I really can not handle doing solid work on a flat track anymore.

2) Okay, maybe you live somewhere where it's not as cold and sh!tty. Do you have reliable access to an outdoor track? The coach at the local university said he doesn't care if I use the outdoor track one bit, but they have a "manager" come and kick people off nonstop, so it's not an option. The local high school locks theirs up almost all the time for no good reason. I had to drive 15 minutes to get to another high school where I could use the track, and only when they weren't having a game at the facilities. Which means early mornings or the rare afternoon in spring when there's no event going on.

3) Meets. In college you might get flown a few states over multiple weekends to race good competition. A 4 hour bus drive to a nearby city and a hotel room is a given for a handful of meets. I really am not in a position to do these things right now, I can't give up a full weekend and all that money to go race, so I've relied on local-ish open meets.

The good parts of training were:

1) As a real adult, I eat better than 20 year old me. I'm actually leaner and stronger and I feel healthier.

2) Again, not a dumb college kid anymore. It's easier, although not a cakewalk, for me to get up early in the cold, get to the gym, bang out a treadmill session, and have a full day after. I'm just a bit more dedicated and willing.

3) Running down a college kid in the homestretch of a meet as an "old man" (I'm really not that old) is something I won't forget anytime soon.

4) If you trust yourself, making your own training or working with friends to make your training is very rewarding. I did the workouts I knew I liked, or liked enough to tolerate. I probably dodged a few things that I should have done more of. It was easier for me to say, "I'm super banged up, I need a day or two off and a day or two of easy jogging to recover," because I wasn't worried about what coach or my teammates might say/think. In college, I would have continued until I was hurt.