Stuck on 18 flat 5k

I don't know where to start, almost too much information to take in.

Consistency could move the needle 35-50 is a decently big range. Hang out 45-50 or try to bump up a little from there & that could get the job done. You're running 4-5 times/week w./ 1 workout? Try 5-6 w./ 2 workouts.

A couple things to try: 1) give yourself more rest on your 5k specific workouts. Say you're targeting a 5k that's 12 weeks out. Earlier in the build when you're doing 5-6 x 1k @ 5k take 2:30-3:00 rest standing if you have to so that you can handle sub-18:00 pace. Midway through the build try it on 2:00 rest. Closer to the race do it on a 90s jog. 2) 2nd tempo/threshold workout (even every other week). Start with broken tempos if you're having trouble hitting the right tempo pace. 3 x 10:00 @ T w./ 2:00-3:00 jogs instead of 20:00-30:00 straight. Can throw stuff like this into your long runs every other or every third week. 3-4 miles @ M.

do some proper speed work e.g. 1km intervals at faster than 10k race pace

some fast 200s or 400s or even 100s

or hill sprints.

At that age one starts to lose some strength. So try to throw in 2 x 10 x 200 m hill sprints. And some strength training/plyometric training (search for Rodal styrke on youtube if you want to copy the Norwegians)

What tempo pace would you suggest for 10 minute repeats?

Are you running even pace in your current 5ks. So many people go out to hard first 1 1/2 and fade in end.

My splits are always between 5:50 and 6:10 pretty much. I don't have the speed to go out really hard.

I might as well ask a couple more questions... firstly is a long run necessary? I do lots of 8-10 milers. Secondly... what would happen if I ran 25-30 miles a week at 6:40ish marathon pace? I've always been curious about trying this.

If your doing your easy runs at to fast a pace like marathon pace your not going to recover as well from your workout days. Threshold workouts you want to run at 85-90% of your current 5k fitness so say your in 6:00/mile (18:40ish) shape you would want to be in the 6:36-6:54/mi range. I like to end my threshold workouts with some faster stuff like 4-6x200 at mile pace or quicker. I agree with one 5k workout day, one threshold workout day and then the LR should be three of your 5-6 days your running. If your running 50mpw your looking at a 10-12mi long run where you can hit MP by the end.

Do you race on flat courses or hilly?

If you only have one run a week where you run faster than 8:00/mile, then you’re gonna be stuck at 18:00.

2k, then 3k tempos at 5:30 pace.

To the OP, also taking in the fact that the main protagonist in this thread basically trained like you have, got stuck around a high 18 for a year or so, laid out what he did to change all that in this thread and recently ran a high 15.

I would also suggest you join the Strava group (250+ and counting) of other LRC users who have dedicated themselves to pursuing this, many of which are all setting new PBs, a lot after even as much as a decade or so of thinking their best years are behind them.

Yes, it's a lot to take in. But in my humble opinion it is the best resource you will find currently on LRC, possibly the web , that's free, that will improve you.

It so funny. Even before I open thread I knew next solution was someone would link that awesome thread. It should just be sticky thread for hobby jogger training this point.

Just going off of your user name/post & guessing that you might have trouble holding the equivalent tempo pace for a 20:00 tempo that your 5k would suggest you can hold. I like getting in 30:00 of work versus 20 but if you normally do 20 then start there. Figure out how you need to break it up to get in the work. 2 x 10:00 or 3 x 6:00-7:00 or 4 x 5:00. An 18min 5k runner should be able to do that work around 6:10-6:15/mile.

Would also say that doing a lot of runs around MP would be a mistake, that, yes, you need a long run (at least 70-75min, up to 80-90), and 5:50-6:10 is kind of a big range in a 5k. Figure out how to red line to even splits.

I dont know how to fix your 5km problem, but I can help with your question about lots of MP kms.

In 2019 I did Hal Higdon program which maxed out at about 40mile/week. I did every single km at 6:45 to 6:50 pace. I ended up running 2:58 in that marathon (my first time sub 3) so it met that goal. But it made me a terrible runner generally. I was so specialised at that one pace, basically my 5km/10km/HM/mara paces were all the same. And after that 18 week block, my body was shagged, not a pathway to sustainable growth.

Coming from experience (18 min 5k down to mid 15s), two things changed everything for me.

1) Consistent running. Find a weekly schedule that works for you and run 6-7 days per week religiously. After awhile 35 miles per week will feel easy and you'll want to do more.

2) Learn threshold effort. Start learning this by judging your breathing. No pace charts or watches. It should feel manageable and after the workout you should feel like you could do more. Start with something like 5 x 3 minutes with 1 min jog recovery.

8 minute pace may be too slow. The lines between junk miles and recovery miles can often blur.

In weeks where you are at the low end of 35-50mpw, maybe drop down that easy pace.

Really, almost all runs should be progressive in nature, imo. Your first you're still warming up, so why on Earth should your last mile be the same pace? This idea becomes dangerous when you end your runs at T pace, but older runners tend to have more self control. Just a thought