In Babe Ruth's first 2 seasons as a Yankee he had 54 and 59 HRs with 135 and 168 RBIs. Flagpole: Meh ... too premature to say he will great. Maybe just a flash-in-thepan.
Dude, you would not do well in Debate Club. We have the benefit of looking back now to see that Babe Ruth had a stellar career.
There are LOTS of supposedly GREAT players who didn't live up to the hype. Who? Well, off the top of my head:
Todd Van Poppel
Kerry Wood
Will Clark (at one time the highest paid player in MLB)
Jason Heyward
Stephen Strausburg
Mark Fidrych
Aroldis Chapman
Aristides Aquino ("The Punisher")
So far, especially the last three seasons, Ohtani has been great...but he's about to turn 30, and father time will win this game.
So, what are you arguing here? That Ohtani will be elected to the Hall of Fame? I agree that he's a current great player. I just don't think he's a HOF lock like some of you say. Are you saying he's a lock for the Hall of Fame?
I don't think he has enough stellar years left in him based on his age AND injury history. I hope the best for him, so I HOPE he makes the Hall of Fame. I don't think he will though.
You can't even show up for a piano contest against Greg and you think your opinion means something? You're a loser and a terrible musician.
Dude, you would not do well in Debate Club. We have the benefit of looking back now to see that Babe Ruth had a stellar career.
There are LOTS of supposedly GREAT players who didn't live up to the hype. Who? Well, off the top of my head:
Todd Van Poppel
Kerry Wood
Will Clark (at one time the highest paid player in MLB)
Jason Heyward
Stephen Strausburg
Mark Fidrych
Aroldis Chapman
Aristides Aquino ("The Punisher")
So far, especially the last three seasons, Ohtani has been great...but he's about to turn 30, and father time will win this game.
So, what are you arguing here? That Ohtani will be elected to the Hall of Fame? I agree that he's a current great player. I just don't think he's a HOF lock like some of you say. Are you saying he's a lock for the Hall of Fame?
I don't think he has enough stellar years left in him based on his age AND injury history. I hope the best for him, so I HOPE he makes the Hall of Fame. I don't think he will though.
You can't even show up for a piano contest against Greg and you think your opinion means something? You're a loser and a terrible musician.
Have to have career stats to make the Hall of Fame or have a VERY compelling reason why you couldn't acquire great career stats. So far with Ohtani, 38 wins as a pitcher doesn't do it.
You are hung up on that 38 wins. How many people have 30 wins pitching and 100 home runs in the history of Major League baseball?
Maybe 2?
How many people have won two MVP's in their entire career?
33 I think.
He will in all likelihood have pretty great stats in ~3-5 more years unless something Drazen Petrovich-esque happens in which case, he'd have a compelling reason not to have great stats. As of now, the fact he's only 29 and played in Asia for a few years is why he doesn't yet have big career numbers. (spoiler: Drazen is in the HOF)
Maybe. Maybe not. Ohtani started playing in the Major Leagues at age 23. LOTS of players don't start until about then. He had three very so-so seasons (yes, won Rookie of the Year, but he was just the best of rookies. His season wasn't necessarily great) before he finally took off at age 26.
I'm not saying he not a great player, but the hyperbole about him is way too much. He has a .278 career batting average and 38 wins as a pitcher, AND he is currently unable to pitch. So far he's a novelty, not an all-time great. Maybe he will end up being that, but it is WAY too early to crown him that yet. His gambling issues don't bode well for him either.
You are hung up on that 38 wins. How many people have 30 wins pitching and 100 home runs in the history of Major League baseball?
Maybe 2?
How many people have won two MVP's in their entire career?
33 I think.
He will in all likelihood have pretty great stats in ~3-5 more years unless something Drazen Petrovich-esque happens in which case, he'd have a compelling reason not to have great stats. As of now, the fact he's only 29 and played in Asia for a few years is why he doesn't yet have big career numbers. (spoiler: Drazen is in the HOF)
Maybe. Maybe not. Ohtani started playing in the Major Leagues at age 23. LOTS of players don't start until about then. He had three very so-so seasons (yes, won Rookie of the Year, but he was just the best of rookies. His season wasn't necessarily great) before he finally took off at age 26.
I'm not saying he not a great player, but the hyperbole about him is way too much. He has a .278 career batting average and 38 wins as a pitcher, AND he is currently unable to pitch. So far he's a novelty, not an all-time great. Maybe he will end up being that, but it is WAY too early to crown him that yet. His gambling issues don't bode well for him either.
What gambling issues? The federal investigation indicated that the gambling was all by Ippei and that he stole money from Ohtani to finance it. Ohtani trusted the wrong guy. The story has run its course and with no damage to Ohtani’s reputation.
I don’t know why you think the HOF is the yardstick for assessing a player. That someone avoided injuries and/or aged better doesn’t necessarily make him a better player. Does Komen having run well for only a couple of years make his 7:20 less impressive? Ohtani’s talents dwarf those almost every HOFer and it’s doesn’t matter if he plays into his mid-40s like Rose did, to boost some career totals.
He has a .278 career batting average and 38 wins as a pitcher, AND he is currently unable to pitch. So far he's a novelty, not an all-time great.
So he's the first guy in over 100 years to win that many games and hit over 100 home runs and he's only been in the league 6 years with two tommy john surgeries? You're right. He is a once in a century talent, better than an all time great! something that most people will live their lives without witnessing! I didn't even realize that he is probably the only pitcher in history to win 9 games with an ERA under 3.5 and hit 30 home runs in a single season and he did it three years in a row!
Even Ruth moved from primarily a pitcher to primarily a hitter and didn't do both simultaneously for long. We are truly blessed to watch this once in history player!
I am glad you mentioned the gambling and how he's pretty much been completely vindicated! It is sad for him that his lack of english skills lead to him being taken advantage of.
He has a .278 career batting average and 38 wins as a pitcher, AND he is currently unable to pitch. So far he's a novelty, not an all-time great.
So he's the first guy in over 100 years to win that many games and hit over 100 home runs and he's only been in the league 6 years with two tommy john surgeries? You're right. He is a once in a century talent, better than an all time great! something that most people will live their lives without witnessing! I didn't even realize that he is probably the only pitcher in history to win 9 games with an ERA under 3.5 and hit 30 home runs in a single season and he did it three years in a row!
Even Ruth moved from primarily a pitcher to primarily a hitter and didn't do both simultaneously for long. We are truly blessed to watch this once in history player!
I am glad you mentioned the gambling and how he's pretty much been completely vindicated! It is sad for him that his lack of english skills lead to him being taken advantage of.
He was not vindicated at all. His team was asked point blank about the accusations and they refused to answer. He gambled.
So he's the first guy in over 100 years to win that many games and hit over 100 home runs and he's only been in the league 6 years with two tommy john surgeries? You're right. He is a once in a century talent, better than an all time great! something that most people will live their lives without witnessing! I didn't even realize that he is probably the only pitcher in history to win 9 games with an ERA under 3.5 and hit 30 home runs in a single season and he did it three years in a row!
Even Ruth moved from primarily a pitcher to primarily a hitter and didn't do both simultaneously for long. We are truly blessed to watch this once in history player!
I am glad you mentioned the gambling and how he's pretty much been completely vindicated! It is sad for him that his lack of english skills lead to him being taken advantage of.
He was not vindicated at all. His team was asked point blank about the accusations and they refused to answer. He gambled.
He has been cleared and it’s over. Have you read articles relating to the federal investigation? There is absolutely nothing implicating Shohei. A lot of teams don’t comment on ongoing investigations.
You should be worrying about your 7-19 Astros, instead.
He has a .278 career batting average and 38 wins as a pitcher, AND he is currently unable to pitch. So far he's a novelty, not an all-time great.
So he's the first guy in over 100 years to win that many games and hit over 100 home runs and he's only been in the league 6 years with two tommy john surgeries? You're right. He is a once in a century talent, better than an all time great! something that most people will live their lives without witnessing! I didn't even realize that he is probably the only pitcher in history to win 9 games with an ERA under 3.5 and hit 30 home runs in a single season and he did it three years in a row!
Even Ruth moved from primarily a pitcher to primarily a hitter and didn't do both simultaneously for long. We are truly blessed to watch this once in history player!
I don't disagree with any of what you said there. Will he make the Hall of Fame? I think he's a long way from that still yet others say he's a lock. Way too early to say he will be in the Hall of Fame or that he's one of the all-time greats (all time greats end up in the Hall of Fame). He's not even doing the extra thing (pitching) this year that makes him extra special.
Injury and age and short periods of time being great have to be part of the factor that determines greatness.
Great in a snapshot of time, but so were these guys who are not in the Hall of Fame (leaving out PED cheaters):
Luis Gonzalez
Roger Maris
Brady Anderson (maybe a PED user in that one great season)
He was not vindicated at all. His team was asked point blank about the accusations and they refused to answer. He gambled.
He has been cleared and it’s over. Have you read articles relating to the federal investigation? There is absolutely nothing implicating Shohei. A lot of teams don’t comment on ongoing investigations.
You should be worrying about your 7-19 Astros, instead.
When I said "team" I meant all of his attorneys and media people. He and his team were asked to comment on the accusations but refused to say anything. You really think MLB would throw its most valuable out or even sanction him? We have not heard one single thing from MLB. Nothing about Ohtani - nothing about the interpreter - nothing at all. Has MLB even commented? And yes - my Astros are sucking. The all-time lowest batting average for min. 400 ABs is .159 and Obreue is batting 0.65. Bagwell needs to be gone.
He has been cleared and it’s over. Have you read articles relating to the federal investigation? There is absolutely nothing implicating Shohei. A lot of teams don’t comment on ongoing investigations.
You should be worrying about your 7-19 Astros, instead.
When I said "team" I meant all of his attorneys and media people. He and his team were asked to comment on the accusations but refused to say anything. You really think MLB would throw its most valuable out or even sanction him? We have not heard one single thing from MLB. Nothing about Ohtani - nothing about the interpreter - nothing at all. Has MLB even commented? And yes - my Astros are sucking. The all-time lowest batting average for min. 400 ABs is .159 and Obreue is batting 0.65. Bagwell needs to be gone.
I don't disagree with any of what you said there. Will he make the Hall of Fame? I think he's a long way from that still yet others say he's a lock. Way too early to say he will be in the Hall of Fame or that he's one of the all-time greats (all time greats end up in the Hall of Fame). He's not even doing the extra thing (pitching) this year that makes him extra special.
Injury and age and short periods of time being great have to be part of the factor that determines greatness.
Great in a snapshot of time, but so were these guys who are not in the Hall of Fame (leaving out PED cheaters):
Luis Gonzalez
Roger Maris
Brady Anderson (maybe a PED user in that one great season)
George Foster
John Olerud
Paul O'Neil
Don Mattingly
Michael Young
Dale Murphy
Kevin Mitchell
Jose Bautista
Johan Santana
J.R. Richard
Dustin Pedroia
Fred Lynn
Chris Davis
Darryl Strawberry
Dwight Gooden
Chuck Knoblauch
Mo Vaughn
Mark Wohlers
Jason Bay
Mark Prior
Joaquin Andujar
Barry Zito
Tim Lincecum
That's good enough for now.
The thing is, they maybe had a few great seasons, but none of them did something almost completely unheard of in baseball history. Dozens of players have ‘great’ seasons every year. Literally nobody ever hit 30 home runs while getting nine wins pitching with an era close to 3. In 120 years nobody did it ever. Ohtani did it 3 years in a row. He completely disregarded the idea that you could be a pitcher or position player but not both.
You listed players that had really good stretches. Ohtani has had a transcendental 3 year stretch unlike anything baseball has ever seen. He deserves to be in the HOF if he never plays another game.
So he's the first guy in over 100 years to win that many games and hit over 100 home runs and he's only been in the league 6 years with two tommy john surgeries? You're right. He is a once in a century talent, better than an all time great! something that most people will live their lives without witnessing! I didn't even realize that he is probably the only pitcher in history to win 9 games with an ERA under 3.5 and hit 30 home runs in a single season and he did it three years in a row!
Even Ruth moved from primarily a pitcher to primarily a hitter and didn't do both simultaneously for long. We are truly blessed to watch this once in history player!
I don't disagree with any of what you said there. Will he make the Hall of Fame? I think he's a long way from that still yet others say he's a lock. Way too early to say he will be in the Hall of Fame or that he's one of the all-time greats (all time greats end up in the Hall of Fame). He's not even doing the extra thing (pitching) this year that makes him extra special.
Injury and age and short periods of time being great have to be part of the factor that determines greatness.
Great in a snapshot of time, but so were these guys who are not in the Hall of Fame (leaving out PED cheaters):
Luis Gonzalez
Roger Maris
Brady Anderson (maybe a PED user in that one great season)
George Foster
John Olerud
Paul O'Neil
Don Mattingly
Michael Young
Dale Murphy
Kevin Mitchell
Jose Bautista
Johan Santana
J.R. Richard
Dustin Pedroia
Fred Lynn
Chris Davis
Darryl Strawberry
Dwight Gooden
Chuck Knoblauch
Mo Vaughn
Mark Wohlers
Jason Bay
Mark Prior
Joaquin Andujar
Barry Zito
Tim Lincecum
That's good enough for now.
You’re comparing those guys to Ohtani? How about Mark Fidrych, Bo Belinsky and Joe Charboneau? In this article, Ohtani, as only a hitter, is ranked as the 4th best player in MLB for 2024, yet you think Mark MF Wohlers is a comp? What?
He was not vindicated at all. His team was asked point blank about the accusations and they refused to answer. He gambled.
He has been cleared and it’s over. Have you read articles relating to the federal investigation? There is absolutely nothing implicating Shohei. A lot of teams don’t comment on ongoing investigations.
You should be worrying about your 7-19 Astros, instead.
So has Gabby Thomas but the suspicions are still there.
He has been cleared and it’s over. Have you read articles relating to the federal investigation? There is absolutely nothing implicating Shohei. A lot of teams don’t comment on ongoing investigations.
You should be worrying about your 7-19 Astros, instead.
So has Gabby Thomas but the suspicions are still there.
People that still have suspicions about Ohtani were never fans of his, anyway. Some people just want to see a popular athlete brought down by a scandal.
I don't disagree with any of what you said there. Will he make the Hall of Fame? I think he's a long way from that still yet others say he's a lock. Way too early to say he will be in the Hall of Fame or that he's one of the all-time greats (all time greats end up in the Hall of Fame). He's not even doing the extra thing (pitching) this year that makes him extra special.
Injury and age and short periods of time being great have to be part of the factor that determines greatness.
Great in a snapshot of time, but so were these guys who are not in the Hall of Fame (leaving out PED cheaters):
Luis Gonzalez
Roger Maris
Brady Anderson (maybe a PED user in that one great season)
George Foster
John Olerud
Paul O'Neil
Don Mattingly
Michael Young
Dale Murphy
Kevin Mitchell
Jose Bautista
Johan Santana
J.R. Richard
Dustin Pedroia
Fred Lynn
Chris Davis
Darryl Strawberry
Dwight Gooden
Chuck Knoblauch
Mo Vaughn
Mark Wohlers
Jason Bay
Mark Prior
Joaquin Andujar
Barry Zito
Tim Lincecum
That's good enough for now.
The thing is, they maybe had a few great seasons, but none of them did something almost completely unheard of in baseball history. Dozens of players have ‘great’ seasons every year. Literally nobody ever hit 30 home runs while getting nine wins pitching with an era close to 3. In 120 years nobody did it ever. Ohtani did it 3 years in a row. He completely disregarded the idea that you could be a pitcher or position player but not both.
You listed players that had really good stretches. Ohtani has had a transcendental 3 year stretch unlike anything baseball has ever seen. He deserves to be in the HOF if he never plays another game.
Yes, it's unheard of, but it's not for long enough, he's injured so he can't pitch this season, he has never won more than 15 games in a season, so how great is he, and he has a career batting average of .278, lower than Cal Ripken, JR.
If he ends up with 350 HRs and 75 wins as a pitcher to go along with a .270 batting average, does put him in the Hall of Fame? I wouldn't vote him in with those stats. What if he can't pitch again (that's a possibility...the Dogers might want to keep him from getting injured so he can bat).
Just because something is unheard of, that doesn't make it great. Rick Ankiel had a story that was unheard of...came in as a pitcher, did well and then sucked. Retooled and came back to the majors as a position player after being out of the Major Leagues for 2 years even hitting 25 HRs one season. That is unheard of. He's not in the Hall of Fame.
Michael Lorenzen who now pitches for the Texas Rangers was both a pitcher (relief pitcher) and an outfielder for the Cincinnati Reds for several years. Dude had 4 HRs and hit .290 one season. Not as good as Ohtani, but he could hit, and he didn't get anywhere near the at bats that Ohtani gets.
Ohtani DOES have 2 MVPs, so that's a great argument point for him...but it's not enough. His career stats are far off from being Hall worthy, and father time is coming for him.
Yes, it's unheard of, but it's not for long enough, he's injured so he can't pitch this season, he has never won more than 15 games in a season, so how great is he, and he has a career batting average of .278, lower than Cal Ripken, JR.
If he ends up with 350 HRs and 75 wins as a pitcher to go along with a .270 batting average, does put him in the Hall of Fame? I wouldn't vote him in with those stats. What if he can't pitch again (that's a possibility...the Dogers might want to keep him from getting injured so he can bat).
Just because something is unheard of, that doesn't make it great. Rick Ankiel had a story that was unheard of...came in as a pitcher, did well and then sucked. Retooled and came back to the majors as a position player after being out of the Major Leagues for 2 years even hitting 25 HRs one season. That is unheard of. He's not in the Hall of Fame.
Michael Lorenzen who now pitches for the Texas Rangers was both a pitcher (relief pitcher) and an outfielder for the Cincinnati Reds for several years. Dude had 4 HRs and hit .290 one season. Not as good as Ohtani, but he could hit, and he didn't get anywhere near the at bats that Ohtani gets.
Ohtani DOES have 2 MVPs, so that's a great argument point for him...but it's not enough. His career stats are far off from being Hall worthy, and father time is coming for him.
The thing is, they maybe had a few great seasons, but none of them did something almost completely unheard of in baseball history. Dozens of players have ‘great’ seasons every year. Literally nobody ever hit 30 home runs while getting nine wins pitching with an era close to 3. In 120 years nobody did it ever. Ohtani did it 3 years in a row. He completely disregarded the idea that you could be a pitcher or position player but not both.
You listed players that had really good stretches. Ohtani has had a transcendental 3 year stretch unlike anything baseball has ever seen. He deserves to be in the HOF if he never plays another game.
Yes, it's unheard of, but it's not for long enough, he's injured so he can't pitch this season, he has never won more than 15 games in a season, so how great is he, and he has a career batting average of .278, lower than Cal Ripken, JR.
If he ends up with 350 HRs and 75 wins as a pitcher to go along with a .270 batting average, does put him in the Hall of Fame? I wouldn't vote him in with those stats. What if he can't pitch again (that's a possibility...the Dogers might want to keep him from getting injured so he can bat).
Just because something is unheard of, that doesn't make it great. Rick Ankiel had a story that was unheard of...came in as a pitcher, did well and then sucked. Retooled and came back to the majors as a position player after being out of the Major Leagues for 2 years even hitting 25 HRs one season. That is unheard of. He's not in the Hall of Fame.
Michael Lorenzen who now pitches for the Texas Rangers was both a pitcher (relief pitcher) and an outfielder for the Cincinnati Reds for several years. Dude had 4 HRs and hit .290 one season. Not as good as Ohtani, but he could hit, and he didn't get anywhere near the at bats that Ohtani gets.
Ohtani DOES have 2 MVPs, so that's a great argument point for him...but it's not enough. His career stats are far off from being Hall worthy, and father time is coming for him.
Come on. Rick Ankiel doing well and then sucking, all occurred within one year. He had a solid 11-7, 3.50 season as a 20-year old, but became Steve Blass on steroids during the postseason, walking 11 guys in 4 innings and never returned as a pitcher. As a hitter, he had a career OPS of .724 compared to Ohtani’s .924.
Michael Lorenzen, who is only 3 years older than Ohtani, just signed a 1 year, $4.5M with the Rangers. I guess the Dodgers didn’t know he was available.
Yes, it's unheard of, but it's not for long enough, he's injured so he can't pitch this season, he has never won more than 15 games in a season, so how great is he, and he has a career batting average of .278, lower than Cal Ripken, JR.
If he ends up with 350 HRs and 75 wins as a pitcher to go along with a .270 batting average, does put him in the Hall of Fame? I wouldn't vote him in with those stats. What if he can't pitch again (that's a possibility...the Dogers might want to keep him from getting injured so he can bat).
Just because something is unheard of, that doesn't make it great. Rick Ankiel had a story that was unheard of...came in as a pitcher, did well and then sucked. Retooled and came back to the majors as a position player after being out of the Major Leagues for 2 years even hitting 25 HRs one season. That is unheard of. He's not in the Hall of Fame.
Michael Lorenzen who now pitches for the Texas Rangers was both a pitcher (relief pitcher) and an outfielder for the Cincinnati Reds for several years. Dude had 4 HRs and hit .290 one season. Not as good as Ohtani, but he could hit, and he didn't get anywhere near the at bats that Ohtani gets.
Ohtani DOES have 2 MVPs, so that's a great argument point for him...but it's not enough. His career stats are far off from being Hall worthy, and father time is coming for him.
Come on. Rick Ankiel doing well and then sucking, all occurred within one year. He had a solid 11-7, 3.50 season as a 20-year old, but became Steve Blass on steroids during the postseason, walking 11 guys in 4 innings and never returned as a pitcher. As a hitter, he had a career OPS of .724 compared to Ohtani’s .924.
Michael Lorenzen, who is only 3 years older than Ohtani, just signed a 1 year, $4.5M with the Rangers. I guess the Dodgers didn’t know he was available.
So, Sally wouldn't answer this question...let's see if you will. Will Ohtani be elected to the Hall of Fame? That's really the main thing I'm getting at here. I don't think he will be. What say you?
He will be 30 in July. He has a .278 career batting average. Giancarlo Stanton is an example of a power hitter who has big time slowed down, and he's only 34. Aaron Judge has had a horrendous start to his season this year at age 32 after dropping of a lot at age 31 following his 63 HR season at agez 30.
I've agreed Ohtani is unique. I've agreed he's very good, even great currently. The question is, will he be elected to the Hall of Fame? I say no. What say you?
You are hung up on that 38 wins. How many people have 30 wins pitching and 100 home runs in the history of Major League baseball?
Maybe 2?
How many people have won two MVP's in their entire career?
33 I think.
He will in all likelihood have pretty great stats in ~3-5 more years unless something Drazen Petrovich-esque happens in which case, he'd have a compelling reason not to have great stats. As of now, the fact he's only 29 and played in Asia for a few years is why he doesn't yet have big career numbers. (spoiler: Drazen is in the HOF)
Maybe. Maybe not. Ohtani started playing in the Major Leagues at age 23. LOTS of players don't start until about then. He had three very so-so seasons (yes, won Rookie of the Year, but he was just the best of rookies. His season wasn't necessarily great) before he finally took off at age 26.
I'm not saying he not a great player, but the hyperbole about him is way too much. He has a .278 career batting average and 38 wins as a pitcher, AND he is currently unable to pitch. So far he's a novelty, not an all-time great. Maybe he will end up being that, but it is WAY too early to crown him that yet. His gambling issues don't bode well for him either.
Discussion of Ohtani starts with the baseball media. If there is any hyperbole with regard to Ohtani it is because baseball writers love him and think he is an amazing player. In your opinion: 1. the Ohtani hyperbole is too much, and 2. he won't get elected to the Hall of Fame.
Do you know who elects former players to the Hall of Fame? It's the media dumdum. The same group that has voted him first, second, and first in MVP the past three seasons.
Your point is that the media hypes him up too much but also that those same people won't find him worthy of the HOF in 15 years. It's incoherent.
Maybe. Maybe not. Ohtani started playing in the Major Leagues at age 23. LOTS of players don't start until about then. He had three very so-so seasons (yes, won Rookie of the Year, but he was just the best of rookies. His season wasn't necessarily great) before he finally took off at age 26.
I'm not saying he not a great player, but the hyperbole about him is way too much. He has a .278 career batting average and 38 wins as a pitcher, AND he is currently unable to pitch. So far he's a novelty, not an all-time great. Maybe he will end up being that, but it is WAY too early to crown him that yet. His gambling issues don't bode well for him either.
Discussion of Ohtani starts with the baseball media. If there is any hyperbole with regard to Ohtani it is because baseball writers love him and think he is an amazing player. In your opinion: 1. the Ohtani hyperbole is too much, and 2. he won't get elected to the Hall of Fame.
Do you know who elects former players to the Hall of Fame? It's the media dumdum. The same group that has voted him first, second, and first in MVP the past three seasons.
Your point is that the media hypes him up too much but also that those same people won't find him worthy of the HOF in 15 years. It's incoherent.
1) Dude, I used to be a sports writer. Of course I know who votes for players for the Hall of Fame. Specifically, it is members of the Baseball Writers' Association of America.
2) I actually have never said it is the MEDIA who has hyped up Ohtani...it is individuals online...here, other places, who have called him the next coming of Babe Ruth, the greatest player in baseball history, etc. Some media members have done the same though, but I have never referenced the media at all.
3) But, YES, the media, even member of the Baseball Writers' Association of America have hyped up a LOT of baseball players in the past and then ended up not voting for them for the Hall of Fame because the players didn't live up to the hype. Not incoherent at all. There have been a TON of "locks", as determined by the media even, who didn't get elected. I've already listed many like that, but just to list again some who were considered Hall of Fame locks, 5 tool players, etc.: Dwight Gooden, Darryl Strawberry, Dale Murphy (and his two MVPs), Yasiel Puig, Jason Heyward, Kerry Wood, Dontrelle Willis, Juan Gonzalez, John Olerud, Jose Bautista...the list goes on and on and on. Members of the Baseball Writers' Association of America aren't like Trump supporters. They don't take a side and then stay there when new information comes. If his current struggles are evidence of a big man just getting older, Aaron Judge just might not make it into the Hall of Fame, so he'd be another one. He's batting .186 so far this season at age 32, and he has just 261 career HRs and wow, only 585 RBIs.
4) Some other greats in earlier years in their career who have struggled since: Christian Yelich (MVP and then second the next year). He won't make the Hall of Fame. Cody Bellinger (ROY and MVP). He won't make the Hall of Fame. Even someone like Mookie Betts (who does have a shot to make the Hall of Fame and hasn't really struggled yet)...he has one MVP and finished 2nd three other times! BUT, he only has 1500 hits, 777 RBIs, and only 258 HRs. If he starts to go downhill over the next 4 years and is then out of baseball by age 37, he might not get in. The Hall of Fame is no guarantee for really really good players. Ohtani certainly isn't guaranteed to get in, and the Baseball Writers' Association of America have proven they don't vote everyone in, even if they hyped them up big time at points during their careers.
