There is no way they are training him like a 800-1500 guy. No reason for those insinuations. He has only every run 400 relay legs, 600 and 800.
Wears a leg sleeve since an injury over a year ago, so he still sees himself as "mildly injured" rather than "not in shape".
He went straight to the back and then mentally quit when the whole field started to pull away from him. He's already jogged it in multiple times during big meets. He's looking for a spot to step off the track the whole race. Cooked.
I don't think there's "no way" they're training him like a 8-15 guy. Looking at their top-20 lists, Ole Miss has only 1 guy who makes both lists in the 4 and the 8. That and the fact that Flatt's highschool 400 PR would make him Ole Miss's school record holder shows that those coaches probably don't have much experience coaching a runner like Flatt, at least not successfully. Even if Vanhoy didn't leave, running at Ole Miss was a pretty stupid choice for Flatt.
He is a 400/800m and I seriously doubt the coaches at Mississippi, or anywhere else, are going to try to change him into Rick Wohlhuter. Is the stupidity of Flatt’s coaches, no more than speculation from LR posters?
I don't think there's "no way" they're training him like a 8-15 guy. Looking at their top-20 lists, Ole Miss has only 1 guy who makes both lists in the 4 and the 8. That and the fact that Flatt's highschool 400 PR would make him Ole Miss's school record holder shows that those coaches probably don't have much experience coaching a runner like Flatt, at least not successfully. Even if Vanhoy didn't leave, running at Ole Miss was a pretty stupid choice for Flatt.
He is a 400/800m and I seriously doubt the coaches at Mississippi, or anywhere else, are going to try to change him into Rick Wohlhuter. Is the stupidity of Flatt’s coaches, no more than speculation from LR posters?
One would think, but understanding how to coach 4/8 guys won't come intuitively to most mid-distance coaches. It's more similar to training sprinters than it is distance runners.
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
800m guys can be very distinct and individual in their training needs. Probably the easiest athlete to screw up as a coach. We had 3 "pure" 800m guys on my college time who were national class. Our coach took a hands off approach to us inbetween hard sessions which worked reasonably well. I ran my best off 60+ mpw, the other 2 were ~35 mpw and 10 mpw (at the most lol). The kid who ran 35 had great basic speed, was insanely confident, and couldn't physically complete a run longer than 9miles if his life depended on it. He would literally cramp up and walk it in if we weren't back to campus yet. The kid who ran 10 never said a word to anyone in the 3 years I was his teammate, was gifted with insane natural speed endurance, but would frequently go awol for days at a time and sometimes even skipped meets with no explanation. Odd cat.
Point being, he's probably not being handled right for his talents/personality. Most elite distance recruits out of high school have that "never miss a day" mentality. 800 guys tend to be more of a mixed bag when it comes to motivation, consistency, and their relationship with the sport.
The coaches entering him in those events doesn't necessarily mean he's training correctly for them. Flatt's coach might THINK they're training him for the 400-800, but to them that could look like having him do the same workouts as the 8/15 guys but slower and/or with less volume. He still might not be doing workouts which stimulate the right muscle fibers and energy systems that his body is most adapted for.
Yeah and he MIGHT be running 90 minute long runs. But there's no reason to assume that.
Ole miss has a few 400/800 guys (Flatt, Carson, Dropik). The longest distance ran by an 800m runner on the team this year is a 1000m.
EVERYONE is racing like 4-8 guys. There literally aren't any 8-15 guys. So I'm not going to assume they are all accidentally(?) being trained for events that none of them run.
Do you have any evidence? Like a single workout he has done that looks more like a 1500 workout? The fact that you talk about 8-15 guys when they don't have a single one has me 100% sure you're pulling it out of thin air.
This, I have a friend who was a 200-400m guy the majority of highschool, ran for a team that rarely ever produced state level athletes, really fast too, I think 21.8 and 46.high
Senior year his coach threw him into an 800m at some nothingburger dual meet where the fastest seed was barely under 2:10, and my guy ran a 1:56 and signed with a D1 distance program a couple weeks later.
This being said, the guy probably was running 5-6 miles per week at a not so great program and ran a solo 1:56 the first time he ever raced the distance, so there was IMMENSE 800m potential there.
They had him run XC and he was a bottom 10 finisher at every meet, he was running around 50-60mpw, and then during indoors he trained with the “middle distance” group which was mostly 800/1500, 1500, and a couple 1500/3000 types, doing stuff like 5 mile tempos and 12x400m, and he couldn’t break 50 in the 400m nor 2:00 in the 800m for the majority of the season, he walked away from outdoors with a 49.6 SB and a 1:57.something SB and quit competitive running.
One of the biggest wastes of talent i’ve EVER seen. I genuinely believe if he could’ve ended up at a program like UTEP or Texas A&M he would be someone you guys have heard of.
He is a 400/800m and I seriously doubt the coaches at Mississippi, or anywhere else, are going to try to change him into Rick Wohlhuter. Is the stupidity of Flatt’s coaches, no more than speculation from LR posters?
One would think, but understanding how to coach 4/8 guys won't come intuitively to most mid-distance coaches. It's more similar to training sprinters than it is distance runners.
Also this, I think many mid-d coaches that take on 400/800 guys get the reps down well, they know 50s, 150s, 200s and 300s are key, but the trend I see is that they tend to be obsessed with short rest and think it’s the best way to train an 800m guy. Of course there’s a place for insufficient rest in the development of anaerobic endurance and lactate tolerance, but I think 400/800 guys need short to moderately long reps with longer rest to succeed. The best way I can explain it is that a miler wants to be in the pain cave even during their rest periods because it’s so short, but 400/800 guys need to hit the reset button.
A great example of this is Isaiah Harris’s strava. His most recent session was something like 5x300m w/5:00 rest, but he’s cranking these in 36-38, 5-6x300m is a staple 800m workout but many distance coaches will only afford their athlete 1:30-3:00 rest which they would consider long, but for a fast twitch dominant guy it’s not long.
800m guys can be very distinct and individual in their training needs. Probably the easiest athlete to screw up as a coach. We had 3 "pure" 800m guys on my college time who were national class. Our coach took a hands off approach to us inbetween hard sessions which worked reasonably well. I ran my best off 60+ mpw, the other 2 were ~35 mpw and 10 mpw (at the most lol). The kid who ran 35 had great basic speed, was insanely confident, and couldn't physically complete a run longer than 9miles if his life depended on it. He would literally cramp up and walk it in if we weren't back to campus yet. The kid who ran 10 never said a word to anyone in the 3 years I was his teammate, was gifted with insane natural speed endurance, but would frequently go awol for days at a time and sometimes even skipped meets with no explanation. Odd cat.
Point being, he's probably not being handled right for his talents/personality. Most elite distance recruits out of high school have that "never miss a day" mentality. 800 guys tend to be more of a mixed bag when it comes to motivation, consistency, and their relationship with the sport topfollowap.
. It demonstrates exceptional speed, endurance, and competitive prowess. If Cade Flatt indeed achieved such a time, it's likely to be celebrated within the track and field community. For the most current and accurate information about Cade Flatt's performance, I would recommend checking recent sports news sources or official athletics websites.
This post was edited 58 seconds after it was posted.
Cmon. With that type of bravado attitude in high school, it was obvious that he wouldn’t even finish out running for his team in university before he bagged it. Guys like that don’t last. If anything, a heavy dose of humility will serve the guy well down the road in life.
I was told that he had a very lucrative offer to turn pro after high school and thought he'd get more money if he went to college and improved.
The sleeve and dnf's suggest he has had injury problems most of his 3 seasons of track eligibility in Ole Miss. When Van Hoy left before he even stepped on campus, that was time to reconsider his commitment to Ole Miss but I don't know that Van Hoy was right for him either, because he's a really good 800/1500 coach whose boys can run some xc as well. Texas A and M is the kind of program that serves runners like this well. If Sumner's coach at Georgia is still around, that would work as well. If he has the discipline and really wants this, he needs to change everything in his college life and get back to basics at a 400/800 program. 1:17 600m showed that he hasn't lost the ability. He needs health, sleep, injury prevention work, and the right coach for his type of athlete.
The sleeve and dnf's suggest he has had injury problems most of his 3 seasons of track eligibility in Ole Miss. When Van Hoy left before he even stepped on campus, that was time to reconsider his commitment to Ole Miss but I don't know that Van Hoy was right for him either, because he's a really good 800/1500 coach whose boys can run some xc as well. Texas A and M is the kind of program that serves runners like this well. If Sumner's coach at Georgia is still around, that would work as well. If he has the discipline and really wants this, he needs to change everything in his college life and get back to basics at a 400/800 program. 1:17 600m showed that he hasn't lost the ability. He needs health, sleep, injury prevention work, and the right coach for his type of athlete.
I agree, 1:17 for a 400/800 guy is indicative of around 1:48 which still isn’t top form for Flatt but it’s better than what he has been running by a long shot, being in roughly 1:48 shape at the beginning of indoors is a fantastic place to be unless you are aiming for 1:43 by the end of outdoors.
I watched his race video that someone posted in this thread and he didn’t look like he was limping but his form didn’t look any kind of smooth, if I was a betting man I’d say there’s definitely some kind of nagging pain there. In an event where swinging your arms a tad bit too hard in the first 200m can cost you 3-4 seconds in the final 400m efficient mechanics are essential.
I already thought it was a weird choice for him to go to ole miss because I view it as a 1500/3k dominant program, the guys they’ve had running 1:47-1:50 are also guys focusing on the 1500m and running 3:40-3:45. Don’t know why he would go there off of his supposed 5-10 mpw training when the status quo is probably that mid-d runs +/- 70mpw and focuses more on the aerobic/mile pace side of things instead of speed and speed endurance. There are two programs in his backyard in Texas that would’ve handled him a LOT better, and then he’d get that hometown hero treatment like Sumner.
Im not a big Flatt hater cause if I was running 1:46-1:47 in highschool I would absolutely be as arrogant as he is, I hope he gets the opportunity to make a switch to a better program and that this experience has humbled him up a bit.
The sleeve and dnf's suggest he has had injury problems most of his 3 seasons of track eligibility in Ole Miss. When Van Hoy left before he even stepped on campus, that was time to reconsider his commitment to Ole Miss but I don't know that Van Hoy was right for him either, because he's a really good 800/1500 coach whose boys can run some xc as well. Texas A and M is the kind of program that serves runners like this well. If Sumner's coach at Georgia is still around, that would work as well. If he has the discipline and really wants this, he needs to change everything in his college life and get back to basics at a 400/800 program. 1:17 600m showed that he hasn't lost the ability. He needs health, sleep, injury prevention work, and the right coach for his type of athlete.
I agree, 1:17 for a 400/800 guy is indicative of around 1:48 which still isn’t top form for Flatt but it’s better than what he has been running by a long shot, being in roughly 1:48 shape at the beginning of indoors is a fantastic place to be unless you are aiming for 1:43 by the end of outdoors.
I watched his race video that someone posted in this thread and he didn’t look like he was limping but his form didn’t look any kind of smooth, if I was a betting man I’d say there’s definitely some kind of nagging pain there. In an event where swinging your arms a tad bit too hard in the first 200m can cost you 3-4 seconds in the final 400m efficient mechanics are essential.
I already thought it was a weird choice for him to go to ole miss because I view it as a 1500/3k dominant program, the guys they’ve had running 1:47-1:50 are also guys focusing on the 1500m and running 3:40-3:45. Don’t know why he would go there off of his supposed 5-10 mpw training when the status quo is probably that mid-d runs +/- 70mpw and focuses more on the aerobic/mile pace side of things instead of speed and speed endurance. There are two programs in his backyard in Texas that would’ve handled him a LOT better, and then he’d get that hometown hero treatment like Sumner.
Im not a big Flatt hater cause if I was running 1:46-1:47 in highschool I would absolutely be as arrogant as he is, I hope he gets the opportunity to make a switch to a better program and that this experience has humbled him up a bit.
Please provide the source that backs your claim that Flatt is running 70mpw.
Every LRer that’s posted in this thread believes Flatt is a 400/800m and should train like one. How can it be that guys who are full-time coaches are dumber than your average LRer?
I agree, 1:17 for a 400/800 guy is indicative of around 1:48 which still isn’t top form for Flatt but it’s better than what he has been running by a long shot, being in roughly 1:48 shape at the beginning of indoors is a fantastic place to be unless you are aiming for 1:43 by the end of outdoors.
I watched his race video that someone posted in this thread and he didn’t look like he was limping but his form didn’t look any kind of smooth, if I was a betting man I’d say there’s definitely some kind of nagging pain there. In an event where swinging your arms a tad bit too hard in the first 200m can cost you 3-4 seconds in the final 400m efficient mechanics are essential.
I already thought it was a weird choice for him to go to ole miss because I view it as a 1500/3k dominant program, the guys they’ve had running 1:47-1:50 are also guys focusing on the 1500m and running 3:40-3:45. Don’t know why he would go there off of his supposed 5-10 mpw training when the status quo is probably that mid-d runs +/- 70mpw and focuses more on the aerobic/mile pace side of things instead of speed and speed endurance. There are two programs in his backyard in Texas that would’ve handled him a LOT better, and then he’d get that hometown hero treatment like Sumner.
Im not a big Flatt hater cause if I was running 1:46-1:47 in highschool I would absolutely be as arrogant as he is, I hope he gets the opportunity to make a switch to a better program and that this experience has humbled him up a bit.
Please provide the source that backs your claim that Flatt is running 70mpw.
Every LRer that’s posted in this thread believes Flatt is a 400/800m and should train like one. How can it be that guys who are full-time coaches are dumber than your average LRer?
Unfortunately their are some really dumb full-time coaches. The coaches ego is probably the most significant detriment, not necessarily lack of intelligence.
I agree, 1:17 for a 400/800 guy is indicative of around 1:48 which still isn’t top form for Flatt but it’s better than what he has been running by a long shot, being in roughly 1:48 shape at the beginning of indoors is a fantastic place to be unless you are aiming for 1:43 by the end of outdoors.
I watched his race video that someone posted in this thread and he didn’t look like he was limping but his form didn’t look any kind of smooth, if I was a betting man I’d say there’s definitely some kind of nagging pain there. In an event where swinging your arms a tad bit too hard in the first 200m can cost you 3-4 seconds in the final 400m efficient mechanics are essential.
I already thought it was a weird choice for him to go to ole miss because I view it as a 1500/3k dominant program, the guys they’ve had running 1:47-1:50 are also guys focusing on the 1500m and running 3:40-3:45. Don’t know why he would go there off of his supposed 5-10 mpw training when the status quo is probably that mid-d runs +/- 70mpw and focuses more on the aerobic/mile pace side of things instead of speed and speed endurance. There are two programs in his backyard in Texas that would’ve handled him a LOT better, and then he’d get that hometown hero treatment like Sumner.
Im not a big Flatt hater cause if I was running 1:46-1:47 in highschool I would absolutely be as arrogant as he is, I hope he gets the opportunity to make a switch to a better program and that this experience has humbled him up a bit.
Please provide the source that backs your claim that Flatt is running 70mpw.
Every LRer that’s posted in this thread believes Flatt is a 400/800m and should train like one. How can it be that guys who are full-time coaches are dumber than your average LRer?
Looks like you haven't run seriously in college if you think college coaches are infallible, especially when it comes to coaching the 800.
I agree, 1:17 for a 400/800 guy is indicative of around 1:48 which still isn’t top form for Flatt but it’s better than what he has been running by a long shot, being in roughly 1:48 shape at the beginning of indoors is a fantastic place to be unless you are aiming for 1:43 by the end of outdoors.
I watched his race video that someone posted in this thread and he didn’t look like he was limping but his form didn’t look any kind of smooth, if I was a betting man I’d say there’s definitely some kind of nagging pain there. In an event where swinging your arms a tad bit too hard in the first 200m can cost you 3-4 seconds in the final 400m efficient mechanics are essential.
I already thought it was a weird choice for him to go to ole miss because I view it as a 1500/3k dominant program, the guys they’ve had running 1:47-1:50 are also guys focusing on the 1500m and running 3:40-3:45. Don’t know why he would go there off of his supposed 5-10 mpw training when the status quo is probably that mid-d runs +/- 70mpw and focuses more on the aerobic/mile pace side of things instead of speed and speed endurance. There are two programs in his backyard in Texas that would’ve handled him a LOT better, and then he’d get that hometown hero treatment like Sumner.
Im not a big Flatt hater cause if I was running 1:46-1:47 in highschool I would absolutely be as arrogant as he is, I hope he gets the opportunity to make a switch to a better program and that this experience has humbled him up a bit.
Please provide the source that backs your claim that Flatt is running 70mpw.
Every LRer that’s posted in this thread believes Flatt is a 400/800m and should train like one. How can it be that guys who are full-time coaches are dumber than your average LRer?
1. In the least narcissistic way possible I am not an average LRer, I am very experienced on the athlete end of the 800m, I study a crap ton of sports physio and have been for years, and have been coaching highschoolers to great success over the 400-800-1600. I have 1 kid that could be running faster than Flatt did this past weekend, he’s a HS soph, and theirs another 1-2 that will be there by next season.
2. Training a 400/800 type is entirely different than training a miler or 800/miler, Ole Miss is dominantly a miler program. At most college programs the coach is catering best to the teams needs as a whole and isn’t gonna rewrite the whole program for one athlete. Ole Miss doesn’t have a designated 400/800 program so using a teensy tiny bit of logic you can deduce that Flatt trains with the MD guys. I never said he is running 70 mpw, I explicitly said that’s probably the status quo for his training group and the workouts are designed around that. An MD athlete putting in 10+ miles a day is not going to be doing the same workouts as an athlete putting in 10 miles per week.
3. There are many collegiate coaches that absolutely do not know what they are doing with 800m training. My college team had an 400/800/1500m group that was rapidly progressing and getting national qualifiers through the first 3 years, the middle distance coach left for a different program, the head distance coach who is nationally renowned for his 5k/10k and even some pro road/marathon athletes took over and everybody regressed, got injured, or quit. A year after the fact the program has gone from 3 guys under 1:50 when I was there to no guys under 1:53, including one of the guys that was a 1:48 athlete under the other coach.
Anyways, is your point that Flatt isn’t actually a 4/8 guy, or that there’s no way he’s being trained like a miler? Comes off as a bit contradictory/confused
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.