Ashely Paulson won the Badwater 135 outright in 2023, does this definitely mean the cheating questions last year were false?

As I said in the other thread, just the way you laid out the premise here shows how unlikely it is that she is clean. Regina, Eddy, dude who dis pushups at the line etc.

Have we learned nothing in the past 25 years?

This is not the first time that a women won Badwater 135 outright. This is the third time. Badwater is not really a very competitive field. There are always some great athletes there like Harvey Lewis or
Yoshihiko Ishikawa but they can have a bad day too. The race is super expensive and the race director likes to invite his fanboys back.

Also worth mentioning is, that they used to start early in the morning but for a couple of years now they start at night which makes a significant difference in times.

Former doper and course cutter. The doubt always remains

She regularly runs 2:4X marathons, and it’s extremely unlikely she could have cut in all of them. I also find it doubtful she would have tried any funny business this year knowing there would likely be lots of eyes on her after last year.

She’s one of, if not the fastest female marathoner to ever run Badwater (and also faster than all but a handful of males). Badwater is not even close to the caliber of the field at WSER or UTMB.

But given her other past history, whether she’s achieved her fitness naturally? That is another question entirely.

I'm sure Camille and Derek won't lead us astray with their astute analytical skills in statistics.

She absolutely ran a fair and honest race last year (to finish third overall) and did so again this year to blast the field (winning by about 44 minutes), claiming the overall title in a fantastically great time, while being watched from the gun to the finish.

Ashley Paulson is, and has been a very good marathon runner for years. She still runs 2:4x marathons in pursuit of another Olympic Trials Qualifier. She ran in the Olympic Trials in 2020, finishing 44th in 2:40:07.

She is also a very impressive triathlete, regularly scoring between 107 and 113 points in the USA Triathlon Event Rankings (that's A LOT), with best Ironman times under ten hours (a 9:34, a 9:36, a 9:49, a 9:53, etc.).

In many of her races she competes at the front of the field, in both triathlon and marathons, and would be "on the radar" the whole way.

After finishing third at Badwater, she added the women's title at the Zion 100 miler this year. There was nothing but praise for her for that result.

Are posters going to point at a failed doping test? Yep. In 2015 she failed a test. USADA, in its press release, clearly stated that it was from a tainted supplement and gave her a six month ban (long enough for it to clear her system). The USADA tested the supplement and declared it tainted. She didn't just make that up. It could happen to anyone who gets a supplement from GNC or a protein shake from Jamba Juice. According to an IOC study, 19% of supplements they tested from the USA were tainted with something (not on the label) that would make the consumer fail a test.

So, why did so many people point a finger at an athlete who is one of the fastest women to ever take on Badwater?

1) Because she had the audacity to be fast in her first attempt and to beat some "known" people or historically recognized split times. Well, one year later she beat both those people and the split times even worse, in full view of everyone.

2) Because she had a friend run with her in the same attire and with the same dyed hair. Admittedly, that was very strange looking and raised suspicion. But, as anyone who has watched women run a relay or crew for each other can attest, that is the kind of thing that some women do to create a sense of camaraderie. I will say that I am glad she did not repeat that this year, and her performance this year lays to rest any question about what she is capable of doing.

Here's the one thing that I find curious:

A lot of Let's Run posters say that ultras are for "hobby joggers" and that if a good marathon runner made the move to ultras, they could dominate. Well, here is a good marathon runner and triathlete (so we know she can go hard for ten hours) who made the move to ultras, is doing great at it, and the witch hunters decided it was impossible.

The only way the cloud will be lifted on whether she is clean is if she passes a test that is given out of competition by surprise.

This is not going to happen, so there will always be some doubt on her wins.

Fair points that she has the credentials to legitimately perform as well as she does. But her HR numbers from last year is the objective data is what casted doubt on whether she ran some sections of the course vs her identical twin.

Its so fascinating to hear your thoughts.

Of course she is a cheater. Was Laz there to watch her on the course. What's this I hear about her hoping into a shuttle? How could a woman finish faster than a the fastest man?

Of course, I jest, I think Ashley is the real deal. As an ultra runner, I welcome people who can push the envelope. I don't know if she's faster than the likes of Courtney D, Katie S., or Camille H., but I hope that they all race in events against each other. It makes the sport more exciting.

And no, I don't care about the tainted supplement. She runs enough races where she could be tested that she doesn't seem nervous that she might be selected. She's a fun addition to ultras.

Clean? The allegation last year was she cut the course. Now we have a different allegation? Doesn't this year undermine last year's criticism?

Yes, this absolutely clears her from the course cutting accusation. which was already flimsy/retracted by marathon investigation.

hats off to her, winning badwater outright is an impressive achievement, wish the course was the same so we could compare the time to historic but either way a win's a win. time for the haters to move on

Who gives a sh*t either way? She won some pointless gimmick race

Rojo never met an American doper he didn't like.

@rojo - this isn’t a new allegation. She was busted for SARMs as a triathlete. She used the ‘contaminated supplement’ defense and she generally comes across as evasive and shady to me. How many things don’t play right with her?

How often have we seen this before?

anti-troll? 🤡

The way rojo laid out the premise is wacked. It's certainly not "Truth is stranger than fiction" when talking about overly enthusiastic LR cheat detectors that are wrong.

She did not "use the contaminated supplement defense."

You write it that way to make it sound like an excuse, or like it is doubtful, invented or in question.

USADA tested the supplement and declared it tainted.

If anything, you could say that she was done wrong by a government that refuses to consider supplements to be either foods or drugs and allows them, to this day, to be unregulated.

Whether you find her to be "shady" or not is up to you, but you have ZERO evidence to prove, or even strongly suggest, that she cheated at Badwater 2022, which is the question at hand.

I finished HOURS behind Ashley last year but she did catch me just after Stovepipe (mile 42) and looked quite smooth doing it (I was in one of the earlier wave starts). It's not at all uncommon for the crew to wear the same or similar outfits as the runner. Did she cheat last year? I have no idea - she ran some amazing splits up Portal Road. She also backed it up with some great races since then, showing she has a knack for strong running in heat and hills, of which Badwater has plenty.

I was there last week as crew this time and she was in the lead pack from the gun, no doubt with eyes on her most of the way. From the viewpoint of "Did she run the course herself this year?" my guess is the answer is yes. Without someone spying on her the entire way, you can't say for sure because Badwater actually would be pretty easy to cheat - even a mile or two in the crew vehicle at night would be a big advantage. Could she have cheated in other ways (doping)? Sure, but that's not what the allegation from last year was. It was initially because she ran some amazing splits beating top performances from many men in her first time out there. Coupled with her doping allegation in the past, and a course cutting incident, that's when the conspiracy theories around her crew wearing the same outfit and a mysterious 2nd crew vehicle came out.

Badwater doesn't get the cream of the crop in terms of talent - that's not what the race is about. If a guy like Jim Walmsley ran it, I have to think he'd demolish the course record. He is a proven ultra stud with 2:15 road marathon, and a 4:50 50 mile to his credit. You put someone with that kind of speed & endurance on Badwater's course, and you HAVE to think he can go well under 20 hours.

The people who do well at Badwater TODAY tend to be strong 24 hour runners who can keep moving at a decent clip for a long time - they don't need to be trail monsters. It's a unique skill set - backyard runners and 24 hour runners can just keep plugging away. Take someone with more footspeed who also has a load of endurance to handle racing for hours on end, and you're going to see the course record drop significantly. Maybe that's what is happening here - she's a very good road runner with some foot speed, lots of endurance and can withstand the elements that Badwater throws at you.

BTW - someone keeps mentioning the night start as being a huge advantage for the times. I disagree - I would MUCH rather deal with 15-20 degrees more heat in the flat section of the race with a full night's rest, versus hitting similar temps on the climb to Panamint/Father Crowley after having already missed a night of sleep. If you're properly heat trained, you slow down a bit in the first 42 miles but then you get to do most of your climbing in the dark , and you're heading up Portal Rd in the cooler morning hours. Just my opinion though.