Been watching quite a few US meets recently - LA, NCAA regionals, etc. The common thread besides the exciting races is the completely empty stands. There is no reason for World Athletics or any other governing body or meet director to make any decisions that cater to the casual fan. The reason? The casual fan does not exist. What kind of casual fan would want to spend all day at a track meet where most of the time they don’t even sell beer and there are constant long breaks in the action?
You’re not wrong about this
That's it. Meets, especially college, aren't put together for casual fans. The TV window of meets are. I remember going to the Millrose Games at 7:00 for the TV portion when they'd been there most of the day with other races
LA yesterday and all the Diamond League meets have the TV window with no prelims and, hopefully, moves along faster.
Track will always be a niche sport. Think swimming and gymnastics. Many kids compete throughout childhood and a few go into college with scholarships. I believe it will be difficult to ever attract a massive audience as regional rivalries are what bring fans out. Michigan versus OSU. LSU vs Alabama. LA versus New York, Liverpool vs. Chelsea. The diamond league is as good as it’s going to get.
This post was edited 3 minutes after it was posted.
That's it. Meets, especially college, aren't put together for casual fans. The TV window of meets are. I remember going to the Millrose Games at 7:00 for the TV portion when they'd been there most of the day with other races
LA yesterday and all the Diamond League meets have the TV window with no prelims and, hopefully, moves along faster.
Even today's Diamond League meet could have cut a couple of minutes of space between events.
I am a casual fan and have to say the Penn Relays were absolutely lit. So many good races, one after another with little downtime. And a whole lot of fans (many from Jamaica) having a ton of fun.
Been watching quite a few US meets recently - LA, NCAA regionals, etc. The common thread besides the exciting races is the completely empty stands. There is no reason for World Athletics or any other governing body or meet director to make any decisions that cater to the casual fan. The reason? The casual fan does not exist. What kind of casual fan would want to spend all day at a track meet where most of the time they don’t even sell beer and there are constant long breaks in the action?
I actually think one of the biggest reasons that there aren't any casual fans is in fact the effort to cater to casual fans, because what casual fans ACTUALLY want and what the media thinks they want are exactly the opposite.
If I'm tuning in to a sport or event I'm unfamiliar with, what I really care about is that this event MATTERS. I don't need to understand everything that's going on, but I want to know there's passion and meaning in what I'm watching.
Just think about watching a major marathon. Serious fans can get through disjointed and uninteresting coverage because we already know the race matters, and we can interpolate gaps in the coverage. Even if the broadcast misses the break, we still get that tingling excitement that the race has broken open. We open the race thread here to get the breathless posts and "MF"s and "goes home devastated" and detailed analysis of what so-and-so could run with perfect conditions and an even pace.
But the casual fan gets none of that. They get people running and then different people running and then people walking. If the casual fan misses the break, how can they fill it in? How can they see the toll of the fast miles, the speed of the running, or the connection to history if the broadcast doesn't tell them about it? How can they think the race matters, even if only to someone else, if its covered in a way that doesn't highlight the parts that matter.
In this way, "serious" coverage is even MORE important to attract casual fans than serious ones. Sure, some casual fans become serious ones, but we don't even need that. If you're tuning into something casually, you expect not to understand everything that goes on. What you don't expect or want is to watch something that doesn't take itself seriously.
How many people watch the Tour de France having no clue how bike racing works? What makes it compelling are the commentators. They explain it. They point out the landmarks. They hype the painful awfulness of what is coming on the climbs. They excitedly blurt out how one of the toughest men alive was just cracked by a young newcomer. They wax poetically about the brave but doomed to fail breakaway. They point out how winning a single stage of the TdF makes a career and offers some riders immortality in the minds of their fans. In short, every stage is presented as an epic and heroic struggle which major consequences.
Phil Ligget - "It's so close now that he can taste it! This 21-year-old Belgian has left the reigning champion utterly shattered on one of the toughest climbs in cycling. He certainly packed a suitcase full of courage in conquering not only the mighty Ventoux but also the great Tadej Pogacar. There will be boisterous celebrations in Oudenaarde tonight celebrating the new owner of the maillot jaune and the arrival of a major new star!".
Bob Roll - "A massive ride that will become legend! After many, many years of waiting, Belgium may have found the heir to Eddy Merckx."
Track and Field?
Leigh Diffey - "Well Kara, you have to say that Hassan and Obiri look pretty relaxed and in control out there with a 50 meter lead over the rest of the field."
Kara Goucher - "You're so right, Leigh. But if Alicia Monson can hold onto third, this will be the best American finish at a Diamond League in some time. Girl looks good right now and is showing how close we are to being competitive on the world stage!"
I would agree with that. I know so many "fans" of the sport who would not even drive for two hours to see the WC in Eugene.
If I told you that my friends were distance runners, would it surprise you that they don't care about the women's shot put or the men's triple jump?
The sport is really four sports sharing a venue: jumps, sprints, throws, and distance. Most people who like track have one favorite sport and the other three are just "fine."
It is one of the reasons that Portland hosts night meets that only include races from the 800m up. The people who live here want to see fast 800s, 1500s, 5kms, etc. Almost nobody who would watch a Nike-sponsored 5000m TT at Jesuit HS would also want to watch the discus or shot. People in the Pacific NW don't really follow the sprints, for example.
I would agree with that. I know so many "fans" of the sport who would not even drive for two hours to see the WC in Eugene.
If I told you that my friends were distance runners, would it surprise you that they don't care about the women's shot put or the men's triple jump?
The sport is really four sports sharing a venue: jumps, sprints, throws, and distance. Most people who like track have one favorite sport and the other three are just "fine."
It is one of the reasons that Portland hosts night meets that only include races from the 800m up. The people who live here want to see fast 800s, 1500s, 5kms, etc. Almost nobody who would watch a Nike-sponsored 5000m TT at Jesuit HS would also want to watch the discus or shot. People in the Pacific NW don't really follow the sprints, for example.
very true, track and field is so diverse and most only have an interest in certain events.
Track and field is unlikely to ever be popular on a pro sport scale. That is just the way it is.
It might require some lateral thinking but there are ways to make endless laps . The assumption is there that distance running is a formal race from A to B. But (at least for me) the true value comes from watching people at the limits of endurance, with a dash of pacing and tactics. It just doesn't have to be a basic footrace. We have wavelights now, what about a survival match? Who can hang on to the pace the longest? Or what about borrowing from cycling and adapting the pursuit as a running event? These ideas might end up being terrible but there's no experimentation going on to find something that might stick.
The 20 minute Chase The 20 minute Chase (or pursuit) is an endurance discipline where two teams run as far as they can in 20 minutes, accumulating points for the distance covered in that time. Each…
How many people watch the Tour de France having no clue how bike racing works? What makes it compelling are the commentators. They explain it. They point out the landmarks. They hype the painful awfulness of what is coming on the climbs. They excitedly blurt out how one of the toughest men alive was just cracked by a young newcomer. They wax poetically about the brave but doomed to fail breakaway. They point out how winning a single stage of the TdF makes a career and offers some riders immortality in the minds of their fans. In short, every stage is presented as an epic and heroic struggle which major consequences.
Phil Ligget - "It's so close now that he can taste it! This 21-year-old Belgian has left the reigning champion utterly shattered on one of the toughest climbs in cycling. He certainly packed a suitcase full of courage in conquering not only the mighty Ventoux but also the great Tadej Pogacar. There will be boisterous celebrations in Oudenaarde tonight celebrating the new owner of the maillot jaune and the arrival of a major new star!".
Bob Roll - "A massive ride that will become legend! After many, many years of waiting, Belgium may have found the heir to Eddy Merckx."
Track and Field?
Leigh Diffey - "Well Kara, you have to say that Hassan and Obiri look pretty relaxed and in control out there with a 50 meter lead over the rest of the field."
Kara Goucher - "You're so right, Leigh. But if Alicia Monson can hold onto third, this will be the best American finish at a Diamond League in some time. Girl looks good right now and is showing how close we are to being competitive on the world stage!"
I agree with this completely. In a distance race, during the last two laps people are making moves, getting into position, trying to throw down the gauntlet, but the announcers are acting like it is a tea party. Even in the last 200 meters they are yelling backstories. “There goes the Fresno State grad who used to run for a coach who is now at another college …”
Every race is thrilling if you know what to look for.
I would agree with that. I know so many "fans" of the sport who would not even drive for two hours to see the WC in Eugene.
If I told you that my friends were distance runners, would it surprise you that they don't care about the women's shot put or the men's triple jump?
The sport is really four sports sharing a venue: jumps, sprints, throws, and distance. Most people who like track have one favorite sport and the other three are just "fine."
It is one of the reasons that Portland hosts night meets that only include races from the 800m up. The people who live here want to see fast 800s, 1500s, 5kms, etc. Almost nobody who would watch a Nike-sponsored 5000m TT at Jesuit HS would also want to watch the discus or shot. People in the Pacific NW don't really follow the sprints, for example.
They need to be connected in a way that makes people invested in the other disciplines. That's why I alway advocate for team dynamics in track and field.
Let's say you're a sprints fan and you've finished watching your team compete in the sprints but there are still some distance races and throws left on the progremme. If you're invested in your team winning you're more likely to stick around and watch the other events when they are part of the win condition.
Now that's a hard sell in professional track and field, and a full programme is sluggish and not suited for regular TV. But there are ways to streamline it, like this concept. It awards points similarly to a multievent but the athletes of a team specialize in one or 2 events instead of being all rounders. And it picks only item 1 from each of the main categories: sprints, distance, horizontal jumps, heavy throws, vertical jumps, hurdling to keep things snappy (and dedicate full attention to each of the 6 events).
The London World champs sold out every day of a massive stadium in 2017 despite England having the most watched Football League in the World and having 1/6 the population of the US
Yes but then left a legacy that it costs 3 million to get the track ready for one track meet.
There are only casual fans in T&F specifically in relation to the Olympics. That’s it. And those casual fans don’t even remember anything from what happens. They don’t remember that Wayde Van Niekerk obliterated the 400m WR in Rio. I guarantee you that they don’t even remember Athing Mu’s 800m gold in Tokyo. If you ask that “casual fan”, you may get name recognition for Allyson Felix, Usain Bolt, mayyyyyyybe Eliud Kipchoge and that pretty much will be it. You won’t even get recognition on an Ingebrigtsen or a Muir. Sad, but true.
And certainly no one outside of hardcore track fans follows Worlds or Diamond League or Armory or any of that. Goodness knows I’ve tried to get friends and family interested, but there are just too many other sports opportunities and because the “superstars” of the sport only care about their own appearance fees and are superstitious about running too many events and don’t give a single you know what about growing the sport (I’m looking at you SML and Mu), there’s no way to build momentum because you just never know when the high wattage performers are going to show up. I mean, I love Craig Engels as much as the next guy, but Mullet Man ain’t gonna sell tix or get eyeballs on the tube.
Keep in mind, this weekend also has East/West NCAA regionals and almost every state had High School state meets. Lots of other meets for people to be at this weekend.
I am a casual fan. I want to look at results and highlights of races longer than a mile. I would never again sit through an entire live meet. I am only interested in 2 types of meets..time trials(like sac/penn/cardinal etc) and championships(conference ncaa/usatf/wc/Olympic )
I hate to break it to you brother, but the fact that you can name Sac / Penn Relays / USATF and WC means you’re more than a casual fan.
I am a casual fan. I want to look at results and highlights of races longer than a mile. I would never again sit through an entire live meet. I am only interested in 2 types of meets..time trials(like sac/penn/cardinal etc) and championships(conference ncaa/usatf/wc/Olympic )
you're posting on Letsrun. You are not a casual fan.
There are only casual fans in T&F specifically in relation to the Olympics. That’s it. And those casual fans don’t even remember anything from what happens. They don’t remember that Wayde Van Niekerk obliterated the 400m WR in Rio. I guarantee you that they don’t even remember Athing Mu’s 800m gold in Tokyo. If you ask that “casual fan”, you may get name recognition for Allyson Felix, Usain Bolt, mayyyyyyybe Eliud Kipchoge and that pretty much will be it. You won’t even get recognition on an Ingebrigtsen or a Muir. Sad, but true.
And certainly no one outside of hardcore track fans follows Worlds or Diamond League or Armory or any of that. Goodness knows I’ve tried to get friends and family interested, but there are just too many other sports opportunities and because the “superstars” of the sport only care about their own appearance fees and are superstitious about running too many events and don’t give a single you know what about growing the sport (I’m looking at you SML and Mu), there’s no way to build momentum because you just never know when the high wattage performers are going to show up. I mean, I love Craig Engels as much as the next guy, but Mullet Man ain’t gonna sell tix or get eyeballs on the tube.
Look the biggest issue is Marketing and lifting prohibitions on Alcohol and Gambling. I'm positive Las Vegas casinos would have a massive profit if World Athletics allowed Diamond League meets or even meets like the LA Grand Prix to be betted on. If meets also established alcohol to be served during the races. BOOM another profit. But, above anything we need a Cult of Personality, mainly one who is a record holder and in championship medal contention ----- Jakob, Grant Fisher, Josh Kerr, ---- etc..we need someone worth watching and someone who can entertain the idea of gambling on a race. Take Boxing for instance. A HUGE amount of the money is from gambling. But, it's unlikely any athlete would risk this due to their sponsorship ties. It would eliminate any reason for companies to exploit runners and hence why they have strict contracts.
I was at the LAX Grand Prix over the weekend and yes, it was half filled stands and I suspect most were hardcore track fans.
though one thing that stood out was the enormous crowd that was there to see Lex Young run. I think it was some Newbury Park high schoolers who made the trip, though I suspect many are fans of their Youtube channel.
overall the crowd was stoic and nonplussed, though when Lex ran the place suddenly came alive. you could feel the excitement. afterwards mobs of people waiting for his autograph or to get a selfie. good for the sport.
youtube and social media in general is giving these runners more recognition. hope when the next generation turns pro - Young, Sahlmans, Tuohy, Valby, etc...they bring along a newer and bigger fanbase.
