Amongst children and adolescents who identify as trans, rates of suicide are actually very low. Thankfully.
The one sub-group of trans-identified people with rates of suicide that are exceptionally and alarmingly high are adults who've undergone and exhausted all the "medical transition" interventions available to them, including genital surgeries that involve removal of their gonads. In this group, high rates of suicides has been shown, with the most dramtic rise in suicide attempts and suicides starting 7-10 years after their last surgery.
Are you going to show the studies you think prove this? Because I know at least one study that anti-trans types like yourself love to use to claim it, but that shows nothing of the sort.
In case you don't and others don't want to read the study I linked to, here's a summary:
Adolescents who identify as transgender are vulnerable to suicidal thoughts and self-harming behaviors. This fact, frequently reported by the news media, is often used as the justification for the rapid provision of "gender-affirming" hormonal and surgical interventions to gender-dysphoric adolescents: “Fifty percent of transgender youth attempt suicide before they are at age 21,” declared the mother of Jazz Jennings, the most famous transgender youth in the English-speaking world.
[But] a closer examination of the risk of suicide among [trans-identifed youth] reveals a more complex picture.
First off, there are wide variations by country, which remain poorly understood. For example, gender-dysphoric youth in The Netherlands attempt suicide at about 1/3 the rate of the UK's gender-dysphoric youth.
Secondly, the estimates collected online from youth themselves tend to be higher than those obtained from more reliable clinic samples. And importantly, the data on suicidal thoughts and behaviors typically does not capture completed suicides, which represents a significant knowledge gap.
A recent study by Dr. Michael Biggs [professor of sociology at Oxford University] fills this gap by calculating the rate of completed suicides among UK's gender-dysphoric youth.
The new study by Dr. Biggs uses the data from the world's largest pediatric gender clinic, the Gender Identity Development Service (GIDS), to estimate the rates of completed suicides among trans-identifying youth.
The United Kingdom has a comprehensive surveillance system for every death classified as suicide or probable suicide and such deaths by patients—even of those on the waiting list—must be reported.
In the eleven years from 2010 to 2020, four patients under the care of the GIDS committed suicide, equating to 0.03% of the total. This translates into an annualized suicide rate of 13 per 100,000.
For the general population of comparable age (14 to 17 years), the rate was 2.7 per 100,000. Thus, adolescents referred to the GIDS had a significantly higher rate of suicide, 5.5 times greater after adjusting for the clinic’s sex ratio.
However, this greater risk is not necessarily attributable to transgender identity.
Adolescents referred to the GIDS differ in many other ways from their peers of the same age: they are more likely to suffer from depression and to be on the autism spectrum, for example. These conditions increase the risk of suicide.
Another recent study revealed that while trans-identifying adolescents' suicidality (including thoughts and behaviors, but excluding completed suicides) is markedly higher than that found in the general population of youth, it is only somewhat higher than in youth referred to mental health services for non-gender-related concerns.
Much of the knowledge of suicidality in transgender-identifying youth comes from self-reported online surveys. However, survey data cannot be taken at face value. As demonstrated by prior research on the general public and of non-heterosexual youth in particular, when respondents who affirmatively answer a question on attempted suicide are asked follow-up questions, it turns out that many had not taken life-threatening actions.
Moreover, “sexual-minority youths appear more inclined than other adolescents to reply in the affirmative when simplistic suicide attempt research instruments are used” (Savin-Williams, 2001). A recently published article likewise suggests that lesbian, bisexual, and gay youth might be “normalizing suicidality as a way to express distress and cope with life problems” (Canetto et al. 2021).
Adolescents who identify as transgender are vulnerable to suicidal thoughts and self-harming behaviors. This fact, frequently reported by the news media, is often used as the justification for the rapid provision of "gender-a...
There isn't any "diversity of thought" on this issue: you either favour trans participation in women's sport (on the grounds of "inclusivity") or you don't - because they have an unfair biological advantage.
Can I ask you what your daughter thinks about all of this and what you are telling her? My daughter, now a collegiate runner, raced Athena many times. She won a few, lost a few more. She really didn’t seem to care one way or another any more than winning or losing to any of the others in the race.
Because your daughter doesn't understand the big picture.
1) If any kids were subjecting to bullying and cruelty, sure I'll denounce it.
I'll also point out that part of the blame for any bullying and cruelty that went on in this case has to go to you and the others who've been pushing policies and practices that are clearly unfair to girls and women - and then slagging off everyone and anyone who raises objections or dares to push back and say "this isn't fair" as mean-spirited, heartless bigots, haters, right wingers, Nazis, imbeciles and so on.
2) I consider myself a "trans inclusive feminist" because my advocacy for, and concern about, female people includes those who have trans, non-binary and other gender identities that put them under the "trans umbrella." The only people excuded from my feminism are males, because feminism is about promoting the rights and interests of female people.
BTW, all males are excluded from my feminism, even those I love including the one I gave birth to, breastfed, toilet trained, taught to drive, nursed through many illnesses, educated, put through college, etc who literally came from my flesh and blood. I don't selectively exclude males identify as trans from feminism - I exclude 'em all.
I don't believe that the people you speak of who hold your views are "trans inclusive feminists." Yes, I think they are misogynists. Women and girls can be misogynists just like "liberal" men can be.
In my opinion, their and your kind of analysis and views aren't feminism - they're genderism, elitism, authoritarianism, male supremacy and silencing of dissent. They/you believe in favoritism for a group of males they/you see as members of a sacred caste and think deserve special treatment - special treatment no other males get, and special treatemnt that comes at the expense of female people.
If your daughter(s), their friends and the women in your life really are so keen to compete in sports against members of the male sex and to share locker rooms, showers, changing rooms, hospital rooms bunk houses, dorm rooms, rape refuges, prison cells etc with every Tom, Dick and Harry who claims to "identify as a girl or woman, I have no problem with them campaigning for the creation of additional mixed-sex sports and spaces.
My problem is with them and you insisting that all girls and all women (the female kind) must give up our hard-won right to female-only sports and spaces because that's what personally suits them, or that's what they say suits them at the present moment - and because it's what you as a man who believes he is wise has decided is best.
This post was edited 8 minutes after it was posted.
From that LA Times article “The CIF strongly denounces discriminatory or harassing behaviors that impact our student-athletes’ opportunities to participate in interscholastic competitions.”
Seriously? The CIF is harassing and discriminating against high school girls by trying to force males into girl's competitions, then falsely accusing anyone who stands up for the girls in a feeble attempt to justify their discriminatory and harassing behaviors.
I couldn’t agree more. Obviously it got ugly but don’t slap unfair rules on girls and then whine about lack of decorum later. do something about the policy.
1) If any kids were subjecting to bullying and cruelty, sure I'll denounce it.
I'll also point out that part of the blame for any bullying and cruelty that went on in this case has to go to you and the others who've been pushing policies and practices that are clearly unfair to girls and women - and then slagging off everyone and anyone who raises objections or dares to push back and say "this isn't fair" as mean-spirited, heartless bigots, haters, right wingers, Nazis, imbeciles and so on.
2) I consider myself a "trans inclusive feminist" because my advocacy for, and concern about, female people includes those who have trans, non-binary and other gender identities that put them under the "trans umbrella." The only people excuded from my feminism are males, because feminism is about promoting the rights and interests of female people.
BTW, all males are excluded from my feminism, even those I love including the one I gave birth to, breastfed, toilet trained, taught to drive, nursed through many illnesses, educated, put through college, etc who literally came from my flesh and blood. I don't selectively exclude males identify as trans from feminism - I exclude 'em all.
I don't believe that the people you speak of who hold your views are "trans inclusive feminists." Yes, I think they are misogynists. Women and girls can be misogynists just like "liberal" men can be.
In my opinion, their and your kind of analysis and views aren't feminism - they're genderism, elitism, authoritarianism, male supremacy and silencing of dissent. They/you believe in favoritism for a group of males they/you see as members of a sacred caste and think deserve special treatment - special treatment no other males get, and special treatemnt that comes at the expense of female people.
If your daughter(s), their friends and the women in your life really are so keen to compete in sports against members of the male sex and to share locker rooms, showers, changing rooms, hospital rooms bunk houses, dorm rooms, rape refuges, prison cells etc with every Tom, Dick and Harry who claims to "identify as a girl or woman, I have no problem with them campaigning for the creation of additional mixed-sex sports and spaces.
My problem is with them and you insisting that all girls and all women (the female kind) must give up our hard-won right to female-only sports and spaces because that's what personally suits them, or that's what they say suits them at the present moment - and because it's what you as a man who believes he is wise has decided is best.
1) There was no IF (did you read what Max Englehart said), so why don’t you simply denounce it. People on this thread follow your lead and they think how this all went down was positive.
2) So in summary, you believe that women like Kimberle Crenshaw and Barbara Smith “aren't (about) feminism - they're (about) genderism, elitism, authoritarianism, male supremacy and silencing of dissent.”
I don't believe that the people you speak of who hold your views are "trans inclusive feminists." Yes, I think they are misogynists. Women and girls can be misogynists just like "liberal" men can be.
In my opinion, their and your kind of analysis and views aren't feminism - they're genderism, elitism, authoritarianism, male supremacy and silencing of dissent. They/you believe in favoritism for a group of males they/you see as members of a sacred caste and think deserve special treatment - special treatment no other males get, and special treatemnt that comes at the expense of female people.
"Misogynist" Gloria Steinem and her "male supremacist" Ms. Foundation for Women handing an award to a transgender youth.
Here’s how transgender inclusion is harming women’s sport. All you need to know in less than 6 mins.#SharronDavies #DaleyThompson #MaraYamauchi #fairplayforw...
1) If any kids were subjecting to bullying and cruelty, sure I'll denounce it.
I'll also point out that part of the blame for any bullying and cruelty that went on in this case has to go to you and the others who've been pushing policies and practices that are clearly unfair to girls and women - and then slagging off everyone and anyone who raises objections or dares to push back and say "this isn't fair" as mean-spirited, heartless bigots, haters, right wingers, Nazis, imbeciles and so on.
2) I consider myself a "trans inclusive feminist" because my advocacy for, and concern about, female people includes those who have trans, non-binary and other gender identities that put them under the "trans umbrella." The only people excuded from my feminism are males, because feminism is about promoting the rights and interests of female people.
BTW, all males are excluded from my feminism, even those I love including the one I gave birth to, breastfed, toilet trained, taught to drive, nursed through many illnesses, educated, put through college, etc who literally came from my flesh and blood. I don't selectively exclude males identify as trans from feminism - I exclude 'em all.
I don't believe that the people you speak of who hold your views are "trans inclusive feminists." Yes, I think they are misogynists. Women and girls can be misogynists just like "liberal" men can be.
In my opinion, their and your kind of analysis and views aren't feminism - they're genderism, elitism, authoritarianism, male supremacy and silencing of dissent. They/you believe in favoritism for a group of males they/you see as members of a sacred caste and think deserve special treatment - special treatment no other males get, and special treatemnt that comes at the expense of female people.
If your daughter(s), their friends and the women in your life really are so keen to compete in sports against members of the male sex and to share locker rooms, showers, changing rooms, hospital rooms bunk houses, dorm rooms, rape refuges, prison cells etc with every Tom, Dick and Harry who claims to "identify as a girl or woman, I have no problem with them campaigning for the creation of additional mixed-sex sports and spaces.
My problem is with them and you insisting that all girls and all women (the female kind) must give up our hard-won right to female-only sports and spaces because that's what personally suits them, or that's what they say suits them at the present moment - and because it's what you as a man who believes he is wise has decided is best.
Your #1 is a massive straw man. Tolerance and “pushing” policies aren’t the same thing. I don’t recall anyone being called a Nazi in response to saying “This isn’t fair”.
1) If any kids were subjecting to bullying and cruelty, sure I'll denounce it.
I'll also point out that part of the blame for any bullying and cruelty that went on in this case has to go to you and the others who've been pushing policies and practices that are clearly unfair to girls and women - and then slagging off everyone and anyone who raises objections or dares to push back and say "this isn't fair" as mean-spirited, heartless bigots, haters, right wingers, Nazis, imbeciles and so on.
2) I consider myself a "trans inclusive feminist" because my advocacy for, and concern about, female people includes those who have trans, non-binary and other gender identities that put them under the "trans umbrella." The only people excuded from my feminism are males, because feminism is about promoting the rights and interests of female people.
BTW, all males are excluded from my feminism, even those I love including the one I gave birth to, breastfed, toilet trained, taught to drive, nursed through many illnesses, educated, put through college, etc who literally came from my flesh and blood. I don't selectively exclude males identify as trans from feminism - I exclude 'em all.
I don't believe that the people you speak of who hold your views are "trans inclusive feminists." Yes, I think they are misogynists. Women and girls can be misogynists just like "liberal" men can be.
In my opinion, their and your kind of analysis and views aren't feminism - they're genderism, elitism, authoritarianism, male supremacy and silencing of dissent. They/you believe in favoritism for a group of males they/you see as members of a sacred caste and think deserve special treatment - special treatment no other males get, and special treatemnt that comes at the expense of female people.
If your daughter(s), their friends and the women in your life really are so keen to compete in sports against members of the male sex and to share locker rooms, showers, changing rooms, hospital rooms bunk houses, dorm rooms, rape refuges, prison cells etc with every Tom, Dick and Harry who claims to "identify as a girl or woman, I have no problem with them campaigning for the creation of additional mixed-sex sports and spaces.
My problem is with them and you insisting that all girls and all women (the female kind) must give up our hard-won right to female-only sports and spaces because that's what personally suits them, or that's what they say suits them at the present moment - and because it's what you as a man who believes he is wise has decided is best.
1) There was no IF (did you read what Max Englehart said), so why don’t you simply denounce it. People on this thread follow your lead and they think how this all went down was positive.
2) So in summary, you believe that women like Kimberle Crenshaw and Barbara Smith “aren't (about) feminism - they're (about) genderism, elitism, authoritarianism, male supremacy and silencing of dissent.”
Hopefully they were not concerned about their safety. That would be really terrible.
Last year one of the two competed at CIF with no issues. I don’t think that it was even mentioned on Letsrun. What happened this year?
There were rumblings and grumblings last year, especially after Lia Thomas's NCAA swim titles, and of course a number of thread on high school trans athletes. But it also got the attention of the conservative media machine and now that's all you see on news feeds. I don't even track conservative media but every day there are two or three new articles quoting Riley Gaines--I finally had to look her up, like Who TF is that? Now she owns my newsfeed. Anyway, now it's a feeding frenzy with a lot of gnashing teeth and drooling from the mouth breathers.
What really gets me is seeing them get all wound up over non-binary categories at road races and other events. The blathering idiots scream ape sh!t over trans athletes competing as females, so some races are adding a non-binary category, and they double ape sh!t and throw their monkey poo around like the baboons that they are.
