Reindeer milk.
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#22
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THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:
Coevett wrote:
If you look at the fastest 10 Kenyan marathon runners at the end of 2019, four of them have been suspended for doping :
3. Wilson Kipsang
7, Lawrence Cherono
8. Marius Kipserem
9. Abraham KiptumThat's 40%.
And if you think I'm cherrypicking, it will look the same way in another 4 years for the top 10 now, and maybe more of the top 10 from 2019 will have been busted by then too.
Here are the top 15 fastest Kenyan Half Marathoners from 2020 (all sub 60). Please tell me how many have been busted.
57:32 Kibiwott KANDIE
57:49 Rhonex KIPRUTO
57:59 Alexander Mutiso MUNYAO
58:11 Philemon KIPLIMO
58:42 Kelvin KIPTUM
59:10 Leonard BARSOTON
59:26 Benard Kipkorir NGENO
59:27 Shadrack KIMINING
59:35 Abel KIPCHUMBA
59:36 Geoffrey KOECH
59:37 Bravin Kipkogei KIPTOO
59:42 Benard KIMELI
59:49 Alfred BARKACH
59:51 Vincent Kibor RAIMOI
59:58 Victor Kimutai CHUMOSo what you’re saying is: these guys are so good and Uber talented that they can beat guys who are already uber talented AND doping on top of that? Yeah, nothing fishy.
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Hwuen wrote:
So what you’re saying is: these guys are so good and Uber talented that they can beat guys who are already uber talented AND doping on top of that? Yeah, nothing fishy.
How do you know the athletes busted for doping are always “Uber talented?” There are thousands of aspiring athletes in Kenya. The ones subject to the most testing and scrutiny are the most accomplished. Kipserem and Abraham Kiptum are two athletes who you could argue were not Uber talented based on their early results in their mid-20s and then with EPO entered the ranks of the Uber talented and got busted once they got tested accordingly.
This post was edited 44 seconds after it was posted.122 -
Coevett wrote:
9. Abraham Kiptum
Are you sure?
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Follow up question - why is he better than Zane Robertson?
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Kipchoge ran his world records when he was 34 and 38.
Is it so weird that a 23 year old comes close ? He could've been a world champion in the 5000 or 10000 m right now and then fulfill not fully his marathon potential when going to the marathon aged 30.
But the marathon is where the money is. So it is wise of him to go straight to the marathon.
I have no doubt he could match or better Kibiwott Kandie's HM world record.
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I explained in my post. Are you trying to say the doping situation in Kenya has cleared up since 2019?? Unfortunately, most of them.din't get nabbed early (Kiptum - the other one - was an exception). It takes time for the ABP to form a picture, intelligence to zone in on the likely dopers etc etc. I will bet you that at least 3 of the top 10 you listed will have been busted within the next 10 years.
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Coevett wrote:
I explained in my post. Are you trying to say the doping situation in Kenya has cleared up since 2019?? Unfortunately, most of them.din't get nabbed early (Kiptum - the other one - was an exception). It takes time for the ABP to form a picture, intelligence to zone in on the likely dopers etc etc. I will bet you that at least 3 of the top 10 you listed will have been busted within the next 10 years.
No I just demonstrated that the idea that 40% of Kenyan HM and up guys are getting busted is way off. 15 names, 0 busts. You’re missing that AIU and ADAK has surged testing and targeting the last year-plus.
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THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:
Coevett wrote:
I explained in my post. Are you trying to say the doping situation in Kenya has cleared up since 2019?? Unfortunately, most of them.din't get nabbed early (Kiptum - the other one - was an exception). It takes time for the ABP to form a picture, intelligence to zone in on the likely dopers etc etc. I will bet you that at least 3 of the top 10 you listed will have been busted within the next 10 years.
No I just demonstrated that the idea that 40% of Kenyan HM and up guys are getting busted is way off. 15 names, 0 busts. You’re missing that AIU and ADAK has surged testing and targeting the last year-plus.
Only to your own mind. 40% of the top 10 marathoners as of the end of 2019 in Kenya, have been subsequently busted. Only a hardcore doping apologist would try to white wash that.
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Why is 23 yr old Kiptum half bald?
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Coevett wrote:
Only to your own mind. 40% of the top 10 marathoners as of the end of 2019 in Kenya, have been subsequently busted. Only a hardcore doping apologist would try to white wash that.
And 0% of the top 15 half marathoners in 2020 have been.
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#33
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I scroll through threads like these as if I was a zoomer scrolling his tiktoks. It's literally just the same 5 people arguing in every single thread.
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It goes to show that there are no training secrets.
Lots of easy running, intervals, tempo runs, that's what you have to do. No coach needed.
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Armstronglivs wrote:
After so many threads - and so many Kenyans busted - what a silly question.
If we assume you are correct with your doping claims what would be a time that you would expect Kiptum to run without doping? Would a 2:40 satisfy you?
This post was edited 9 minutes after it was posted.91 -
Coevett wrote:
If you look at the fastest 10 Kenyan marathon runners at the end of 2019, four of them have been suspended for doping :
3. Wilson Kipsang
7, Lawrence Cherono
8. Marius Kipserem
9. Abraham KiptumThat's 40%.
And if you think I'm cherrypicking, it will look the same way in another 4 years for the top 10 now, and maybe more of the top 10 from 2019 will have been busted by then too.
4/10 = 40%. Top maths; do you have any other insights for us!
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Is he doping? Definitely a possibility.
I heard of a lot of Europeans and Americans marathoners that could be doping as well. How many of them would finish within 1 mile of Kiptum?
How many of them have run sub 1h for the half?
Let s assume you are a...I don't know, a 1h57 marathon guy if doped...Would you take the risk? 1h58? 2h00? 2h01? 2h03?
Would you destroy the field the way he did it?
Will he go for the Marathon chpts in August in Buda?
If you were Nike, would you reach for him instantly? Or wait until...?
Do you think he will get burn à la Kimetto after a couple more marathons?
It s horrible, but doped or not...I know I am a fan. He is aggressive, he looks fast when he runs, beautiful stride, game changer...At least it s exciting.
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Ain't got no distractions
Can't hear no buzzers and bells
Don't see no lights a'flashin
Runs by sense of smell32 -
The career progression from track to marathon always seemed like a sinecure for old fading stars. It was also more myth than reality. Shorter ran both the 10k and the marathon at the 1972 Olympics when he was 24 years old. Salazar was 22 years old when he won his first NYC marathon in 1980.
There are those who can be world class in the marathon but not the 10k. These runners should leverage their youth to compete and learn how to run the marathon in their early 20s or even in college. Unfortunately the marathon isn't an NCAA event so those who want to compete have to do it on their own time or wait until after graduation.
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%20has%20held%20a%20championship%20for%20the%20marathon%20as%20part%20of%20its%20national%20outdoor%20track%20championships%20in%20May%20often%20with%20a%206%20a.m.%20start%20on%20the%20final%20day%20of%20the%20three-day%20meet.%5CnWhile%20all%20collegiate%20runners%20must%20find%20a%20balance%20between%20training,%20schoolwork,%20relationships%20and%20adequate%20sleep,%20those%20who%20run%20the%20marathon%20are%20typically%20logging%20more%20miles,%20and%20theyre%20also%20often%20being%20counted%20on%20to%20run%20the%205,000m%20or%2010,000,%20to%20score%20for%20their%20team%20during%20the%20season,%20so%20their%20marathon%20training%20is%20in%20addition%20to%20training%20for%20the%20shorter%20distances.%5CnPractices%20were%20often%20longer%20for%20me,%20meaning%20less%20time%20was%20available%20to%20study,%20says%20Jared%20Bird,%20a%202:45%20marathoner%20who%20ran%20for%20Biola%20University%20in%20La%20Mirada,%20Calif.%20After%20working%20out,%20stretching,%20doing%20core,%20weights,%20spending%20time%20in%20the%20ice%20bath%20and%20eating,%20I%20only%20had%20a%20few%20hours%20left%20to%20do%20the%20work%20for%2015%20units%20worth%20of%20classes.%20I%20had%20to%20basically%20skim%20the%20reading,%20taking%20in%20the%20major%20points.%20%5CnRunners%20can%20qualify%20for%20the%20national%20championship%20at%20any%20open%20marathon%20(men:%202:44%20A%5C/2:50%20B;%20women:%203:34%5C/%203:40)%20or%20half%20marathon%20(men:%201:14%5C/1:16:40;%20women:%201:33%5C/1:36)%20between%20November%20and%20May.%20Those%20standards%20are%20considerably%20easier%20than%20the%20standards%20for%20the%20U.S.%20Olympic%20trials%20(at%202:19%5C/1:05%20for%20men,%202:47%5C/1:15%20for%20women).%20Theyre%20also%20relatively%20easier%20than%20qualifying%20standards%20in%20other%20distances%20for%20the%20NAIA%20national%20championships,%20where,%20for%20example,%20men%20have%20to%20run%20a%2010,000m%20in%2032:20.40%20and%20women%20in%2039:25.They%20made%20the%20standard%20a%20minute%20faster%20my%20senior%20year,%20but%20it%20was%20still%20the%20easiest%20to%20qualify%20for,%20says%20Bird,%20who%20qualified%20for%20the%20NAIA%20marathon%20in%202008%20and%202009.%20The%20marathon%20is%20also%20the%20only%20event%20you%20can%20qualify%20for%20out%20of%20season.%20With%20the%205K,%20you%20have%20to%20qualify%20during%20indoor%20season%20for%20indoor%20nationals%20then%20qualify%20again%20during%20the%20outdoor%20season%20for%20outdoor%20nationals.%20%5CnRunning%20the%20championship%20marathon%20is%20a%20unique%20experience.%20The%20field%20is%20less%20than%2050%20runners%20each%20year,%20with%20an%20average%20finishing%20time%20last%20year%20of%202:48%20for%20men,%203:30%20for%20women.%20The%20mens%20record%20is%202:21:08%20set%20by%20Jim%20Cairns%20of%20Puget%20Sound%20University%20in%201985,%20womens%202:49:14%20set%20in%201992%20by%20Midland%20Lutherans%20Amber%20Anderson,%20though%20in%20most%20years%20the%20mens%20race%20goes%20in%20the%20high%202:20s%20and%20the%20womens%20right%20around%203:00.%20Last%20year,%20when%20the%20championship%20was%20also%20held%20in%20Marion,%20Ind.,%20Jeff%20Jackson,%20a%20senior%20at%20The%20Masters%20College,%20won%20the%20mens%20race%20in%202:31:44,%20while%20Wendy%20O%27Lexey,%20a%20senior%20at%20Black%20Hills%20State,%20was%20the%20womens%20repeat%20winner%20in%202:57:59.%20These%20winners%20not%20only%20brought%20home%2010%20points%20for%20their%20team%20but%20garnered%20All-American%20status%20(given%20to%20the%20top%20six%20finishers).%5CnFor%20a%20young%20runner%20not%20gifted%20enough%20in%20speed%20to%20qualify%20in%20the%205,000m%20or%2010,000m%20but%20willing%20to%20put%20in%20the%20miles%20to%20run%20a%20strong%20marathon%20as%20well%20as%20balance%20the%20demands%20of%20training%20for%20the%20season%20and%20the%20marathon,%20the%20NAIA%20national%20championship%20is%20a%20unique%20opportunity%20to%20compete%20in%20a%20national%20championship%20and%20develop%20as%20a%20marathoner.%5CnThis%20year%27s%20NAIA%20marathon%20will%20be%20held%20during%20the%202011%20NAIA%20Track%20and%20Field%20Championships%20May%2026-28%20at%20Indiana%20Wesleyan%20University%20in%20Marion,%20Indiana.%22,%22wordCount%22:592,%22articleSection%22:%22Advanced%22,%22image%22:%5B%7B%22@type%22:%22ImageObject%22,%22height%22:1200,%22thumbnail%22:%22%22,%22url%22:%22%22,%22width%22:1200%7D,%7B%22@type%22:%22ImageObject%22,%22height%22:900,%22thumbnail%22:%22%22,%22url%22:%22%22,%22width%22:1200%7D,%7B%22@type%22:%22ImageObject%22,%22height%22:675,%22thumbnail%22:%22%22,%22url%22:%22%22,%22width%22:1200%7D%5D,%22mainEntityOfPage%22:%7B%22@id%22:%22https:%5C/%5C/www.runnersworld.com%5C/advanced%5C/a20825069%5C/collegiate-marathoners%5C/%22,%22@type%22:%22WebPage%22%7D,%22publisher%22:%7B%22@type%22:%22NewsMediaOrganization%22,%22name%22:%22Runner%27s%20World%22,%22logo%22:%7B%22@type%22:%22ImageObject%22,%22url%22:%22https:%5C/%5C/www.runnersworld.com%5C/_assets%5C/design-tokens%5C/runnersworld%5C/static%5C/images%5C/l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