A simple question: Whose run in London do you think was less believable, Hassan coming from so far behind against "the greatest women's field ever assembled" and dusting them with ease at the end, or Kiptum running 13:49/27:50/59:47 in the 2nd half to run faster than Kenenisa ever did?
The answer is simple. Kiptum's.
Hassan's win while a surprise isn't suspicious for me at all. She very much looked human. She didn't dust anyone with ease. The end of race mile splits were mind-blowing slow. If I told you before the race that after a 68:30 1st half that 4 women would hit 40k together on 2:18 pace, I don't think anyone would have believed in their wildest dreams that if you just averaged 5:35 mile pace from 40k to the finish, you'd win by 4 seconds. That's what Hassan did today.
She slowed down over the second half, lucky for her, everyone else slowed down even more. It was really kind of stunning how slow everyone else was closing. I kept waiting for maybe a sub-5 mile certainly sub 5:15 and the mile splits were going up close to 6.
Kiptum was UNREAL. To put nearly 3 minutes on the field in 12.195k is crazy. He ran 27:50 from 30k to 40k as you pointed out. Self-coached. I really hope he's clean as that was amazing to watch. To watch him just sprinting in that final stretch reminded me of the opening scene to that Haile G movie 20 years ago. So cool.
Question Rojo. While we are both mentally immune to Hassan's performances. Her performance wasn't that much of a surprise. The surprise is If you compare the 2015/2016 Hassan. Already one of the best middle distance runners in the world. Very beautiful and feminine with the 2019 version, skinny with rock hard abs. That's the suspicious part about Hassan!
In Marathon we tend to only believe people we've seen do super fast times on the track who then move the marathon and have a "believable" trajectory of improvement. So naturally if someone comes on the scene entirely unknown dropping 2:01s in both his first marathons there will be question marks. Big ones indeed. However, no one guarantees us that any of the "believable progressions" we have seen of someone than Kipchoge is real or doped. Like just because we knew him during his track times makes him instantly less likely to dope. We want to think we know these athletes but we really don't. Anyone can dope that is for sure.
Hassan's win while a surprise isn't suspicious for me at all. She very much looked human. She didn't dust anyone with ease. The end of race mile splits were mind-blowing slow. If I told you before the race that after a 68:30 1st half that 4 women would hit 40k together on 2:18 pace, I don't think anyone would have believed in their wildest dreams that if you just averaged 5:35 mile pace from 40k to the finish, you'd win by 4 seconds. That's what Hassan did today.
She slowed down over the second half, lucky for her, everyone else slowed down even more. It was really kind of stunning how slow everyone else was closing. I kept waiting for maybe a sub-5 mile certainly sub 5:15 and the mile splits were going up close to 6.
Kiptum was UNREAL. To put nearly 3 minutes on the field in 12.195k is crazy. He ran 27:50 from 30k to 40k as you pointed out. Self-coached. I really hope he's clean as that was amazing to watch. To watch him just sprinting in that final stretch reminded me of the opening scene to that Haile G movie 20 years ago. So cool.
Question Rojo. While we are both mentally immune to Hassan's performances. Her performance wasn't that much of a surprise. The surprise is If you compare the 2015/2016 Hassan. Already one of the best middle distance runners in the world. Very beautiful and feminine with the 2019 version, skinny with rock hard abs. That's the suspicious part about Hassan!
What is suspicious about losing weight? The old Hassan with boobs was overweight.
So he is self-coached and 23. Imagine if he was born 50 years earlier. Presumably he isn't doing anything better training wise than the elites 50 years ago were doing, or possibly worse. The WR 50 years ago was 2:09:28. Even if you think the shoes make a massive 3 minute difference, he would still be running 6 minutes faster than the WR, with more to come.
The internet doesn't suddenly stop existing because you don't have a coach.
He can still benefit from all of the philosophies and methodologies of the best coaches and exercise scientists the world has to offer.
The marathon can't continue to be a haven for overmatched athletes who somehow become adored. It's like being fascinated by the guy who keeps going until he cleans every window in the complex.
A simple question: Whose run in London do you think was less believable, Hassan coming from so far behind against "the greatest women's field ever assembled" and dusting them with ease at the end, or Kiptum running 13:49/27:50/59:47 in the 2nd half to run faster than Kenenisa ever did?
Well I saw them both live so I believe both happened
There are 20-25 year olds on the world scene now that have NEVER competed in the Marathon in anything else than carbon shoes. They didn't have to re-learn optimal running technique like the ones that were on top when those shoes debuted and allowed for a harder into the ground step (and of those basically only Kipchoge remains in the absolute top, coming from a 3000 and 5000 background, which in hindsight seems to have been a better position than going up from the 10000 and HM, which he bypassed).
This new generation also didn't have to re-learn that they could up their weekly milage when carbon made that possible - they've gone harder and more often at an early age than any generation before them.
If Berlin empties their pockets to pitch Kiptum vs Kiplimo this autumn they'll shave another minute of the WR, maybe more.
Question Rojo. While we are both mentally immune to Hassan's performances. Her performance wasn't that much of a surprise. The surprise is If you compare the 2015/2016 Hassan. Already one of the best middle distance runners in the world. Very beautiful and feminine with the 2019 version, skinny with rock hard abs. That's the suspicious part about Hassan!
This post is getting downvoted because it smells a little sexist, and basing your accusation solely on physical changes is a fairly shallow argument.
That said, likable as she may be, I definitely think Hassan doped to reach her 2019 form. Closing the Doha 10k with a 3:59 1500 (!), and then front running a 3:51.95 1500 (last 800 in 2:01.8, last 400 in 59.3) to finish 2.27 seconds clear of Faith Kipyegon? Pretty unbelievable if you ask me.
Question Rojo. While we are both mentally immune to Hassan's performances. Her performance wasn't that much of a surprise. The surprise is If you compare the 2015/2016 Hassan. Already one of the best middle distance runners in the world. Very beautiful and feminine with the 2019 version, skinny with rock hard abs. That's the suspicious part about Hassan!
This post is getting downvoted because it smells a little sexist, and basing your accusation solely on physical changes is a fairly shallow argument.
That said, likable as she may be, I definitely think Hassan doped to reach her 2019 form. Closing the Doha 10k with a 3:59 1500 (!), and then front running a 3:51.95 1500 (last 800 in 2:01.8, last 400 in 59.3) to finish 2.27 seconds clear of Faith Kipyegon? Pretty unbelievable if you ask me.
Wow I just checked out photos of hassan in 2014 and wow its like she is not even the same person anymore. That is a crazy difference. Its not about feminine or not. Its whether she brought on that drastic physical change with legal means or not. Considering that her rapid change is also when she rapidly improved as an athlete I am not so sure it was all done by legal means.
Question Rojo. While we are both mentally immune to Hassan's performances. Her performance wasn't that much of a surprise. The surprise is If you compare the 2015/2016 Hassan. Already one of the best middle distance runners in the world. Very beautiful and feminine with the 2019 version, skinny with rock hard abs. That's the suspicious part about Hassan!
This post is getting downvoted because it smells a little sexist, and basing your accusation solely on physical changes is a fairly shallow argument.
That said, likable as she may be, I definitely think Hassan doped to reach her 2019 form. Closing the Doha 10k with a 3:59 1500 (!), and then front running a 3:51.95 1500 (last 800 in 2:01.8, last 400 in 59.3) to finish 2.27 seconds clear of Faith Kipyegon? Pretty unbelievable if you ask me.
Certain posts are getting downvoted, including multiple downvotes within a few seconds, because there doping apologist bots or obsessives here. Surely as a mod you ought to be aware of that??
Unless you're saying that you are using mod privileges to mass downvote his comment?
This post is getting downvoted because it smells a little sexist, and basing your accusation solely on physical changes is a fairly shallow argument.
That said, likable as she may be, I definitely think Hassan doped to reach her 2019 form. Closing the Doha 10k with a 3:59 1500 (!), and then front running a 3:51.95 1500 (last 800 in 2:01.8, last 400 in 59.3) to finish 2.27 seconds clear of Faith Kipyegon? Pretty unbelievable if you ask me.
Certain posts are getting downvoted, including multiple downvotes within a few seconds, because there doping apologist bots or obsessives here. Surely as a mod you ought to be aware of that??
Unless you're saying that you are using mod privileges to mass downvote his comment?
Lol no, you conspiratorial kook. No “mod privileges” allow mass downvotes—that would be bizarre—and there aren’t “doping apologist bots”. (I can delete posts/threads, see reported posts, and see posts/threads that have been deleted by others - that’s it. I can’t restore posts/threads that have been deleted, I can’t change thread titles, and I certainly can’t “mass downvote”.)
As a matter of fact, I’m one of the 2 people who upvoted the post in question (I see why people take issue with the post, but I wanted to provide a little balance since the poster did have a fair point).
Don't eat or drink anything from sunrise to sunset for a month while training and I think you'll find you lose weight too. :)
C'mon, the pre-race claims about Hassan from her and her coach were clearly filled with lies and exaggerations. Oh, she's not in shape, and she's just been through a hellish Ramadan where she starved herself!...Well, the coach did say she stuck to her Ramadan fast "with a few exceptions" (or something like that). I bet there were more than just a few. Do you really believe she did her long runs without fluids or fuel during the run, for example?
The whole thing just sounds like a bit of gamesmanship trying to get her competitors to write her off.
But anyway, she didn't lose her weight during the last couple of months. She's been skinny for several years now.
That said, likable as she may be, I definitely think Hassan doped to reach her 2019 form. Closing the Doha 10k with a 3:59 1500 (!), and then front running a 3:51.95 1500 (last 800 in 2:01.8, last 400 in 59.3) to finish 2.27 seconds clear of Faith Kipyegon? Pretty unbelievable if you ask me.
Agreed. Sifan is pretty obviously doped, and I don't get why the general sentiment here isn't acknowledging it. Adding to what you wrote, her range is also unbelievable. Elite 800m speed, WR mile, AND world class marathoner? I don't believe it.
There's simply not enough data on Kiptum to know, but that's really part of the problem. Quite frankly, I don't believe it's possible to do what he just did without doping. For anybody on the planet.
Don't eat or drink anything from sunrise to sunset for a month while training and I think you'll find you lose weight too. :)
C'mon, the pre-race claims about Hassan from her and her coach were clearly filled with lies and exaggerations. Oh, she's not in shape, and she's just been through a hellish Ramadan where she starved herself!...Well, the coach did say she stuck to her Ramadan fast "with a few exceptions" (or something like that). I bet there were more than just a few. Do you really believe she did her long runs without fluids or fuel during the run, for example?
The whole thing just sounds like a bit of gamesmanship trying to get her competitors to write her off.
But anyway, she didn't lose her weight during the last couple of months. She's been skinny for several years now.
So you missed the World Championships in Eugene? This was Hassan back in absolutely top 'form', so yeah, pretty unbeatable.
Kiptums run is the most incredible. That is the future of the Marathon right there. A sub 2 hrs is if not going to be broken either by him or another African talent. I believe that Kipchoge motivated these stars, and they are following in his footsteps.
HISSAN is a marathon talent, but she may have moved up too soon to the distance. She is still quite speedy on the track. But who can argue that after her sub 220 marathon. Very few ladies can claim to run as fast unless they are from Africa of course.
The future of the Marathon has just got more interesting.