Yea thats not correct. There has been a huge haul of palmares by trans and biological males in just the last few years post Semenya. I agree with you it may not be the "end" of women's sorts, but this sucks as some events are just pre determined.
Look up Nyonsaba, Mboma, Semnya. Big haul. Taking medals from Women. Even if you transition, you have the advantages of T when you developed. As far as DSD, I feel bad for them, but we have to draw the line.
Notice how you didn't list a single trans athlete.....
You can list trans athletes but why do you need to. It's not hard to imagine the Lia Thomas of track and field. Thomas beat Olympic swimmers in the NCAA.
No need to wait for that to set policies that preserve sport fairness and opportunity for women and girls.
Maybe LeBron or Kipchoge can identify as female and compete until they're 55
Transgenders shouldn't be able to compete against actual women.
“The truth” is there are way more threads on LRC on this topic than actual trans athletes competing at elite levels in T&F.
There is no biologic fairness in this scenario, that’s also true, but I think the proposed WA rules of 2 years of T suppression to below 2.5 is going to render the issue moot at the elite level.
Notice how you didn't list a single trans athlete.....
You can list trans athletes but why do you need to. It's not hard to imagine the Lia Thomas of track and field. Thomas beat Olympic swimmers in the NCAA.
No need to wait for that to set policies that preserve sport fairness and opportunity for women and girls.
Ok. List a single trans woman who has won a Olympic/WC medal in TF in the past 50 years. Or even run in the finals. Or made a diamond league. You can't. Well unless you count the transman still eligible to compete as a woman. There are a few winning low level college events and high school. And it is pretty clear none of those women would be eligible under these guidelines...
Maybe LeBron or Kipchoge can identify as female and compete until they're 55
Transgenders shouldn't be able to compete against actual women.
“The truth” is there are way more threads on LRC on this topic than actual trans athletes competing at elite levels in T&F.
There is no biologic fairness in this scenario, that’s also true, but I think the proposed WA rules of 2 years of T suppression to below 2.5 is going to render the issue moot at the elite level.
Anyway, another day, another thread…..
Because the number of trans athletes may not be great there are those who say it isn't really a significant issue. You seem to be one of them. You don't seem to get that it isn't a numerical issue but a question of principle. Women's competition isn't for biological males. Lowering testosterone levels doesn't change that principle and since it is only one feature of male advantage it isn't likely to resolve the question of "fairness" either.
Because the number of trans athletes may not be great there are those who say it isn't really a significant issue. You seem to be one of them. You don't seem to get that it isn't a numerical issue but a question of principle. Women's competition isn't for biological males. Lowering testosterone levels doesn't change that principle and since it is only one feature of male advantage it isn't likely to resolve the question of "fairness" either.
Yes, I’m a pragmatist and not an absolutist. It’s not fair, but guess what, welcome to the real world. The proposed WA rules are pretty stringent and it’s going to be nearly impossible for an elite trans or DSD athlete to take a medal or spot from an XX female. I’d prefer a ban myself at the elite/pro level, though I don’t feel that’s appropriate in HS and youth and recreational (hobby) sports. Regardless, if these rules are adopted by WA, I’d recommend everybody take the “win” and move on.
Because the number of trans athletes may not be great there are those who say it isn't really a significant issue. You seem to be one of them. You don't seem to get that it isn't a numerical issue but a question of principle. Women's competition isn't for biological males. Lowering testosterone levels doesn't change that principle and since it is only one feature of male advantage it isn't likely to resolve the question of "fairness" either.
Yes, I’m a pragmatist and not an absolutist. It’s not fair, but guess what, welcome to the real world. The proposed WA rules are pretty stringent and it’s going to be nearly impossible for an elite trans or DSD athlete to take a medal or spot from an XX female. I’d prefer a ban myself at the elite/pro level, though I don’t feel that’s appropriate in HS and youth and recreational (hobby) sports. Regardless, if these rules are adopted by WA, I’d recommend everybody take the “win” and move on.
There literally is no such principle like suggests. There is no document of any authority saying that. Sex verification in sports is so last century.
The recent UK census showed 0.2% of the population are transgender. On average you'll meet two transgender people a year. The chances of meeting one in a professional shot put competition is even smaller.
Before regulations were in place, XY athletes literally took all three Olympic 800m medals. And there is no way to know what percentage of the population is 'transgender'. Since it's all in someone's head literally all the men in the world could decide to be 'transgender' one day on a whim.
“The truth” is there are way more threads on LRC on this topic than actual trans athletes competing at elite levels in T&F.
There is no biologic fairness in this scenario, that’s also true, but I think the proposed WA rules of 2 years of T suppression to below 2.5 is going to render the issue moot at the elite level.
Anyway, another day, another thread…..
Because the number of trans athletes may not be great there are those who say it isn't really a significant issue. You seem to be one of them. You don't seem to get that it isn't a numerical issue but a question of principle. Women's competition isn't for biological males. Lowering testosterone levels doesn't change that principle and since it is only one feature of male advantage it isn't likely to resolve the question of "fairness" either.
So you admit it's not really about 'saving women's sport'
The recent UK census showed 0.2% of the population are transgender. On average you'll meet two transgender people a year. The chances of meeting one in a professional shot put competition is even smaller.
Before regulations were in place, XY athletes literally took all three Olympic 800m medals. And there is no way to know what percentage of the population is 'transgender'. Since it's all in someone's head literally all the men in the world could decide to be 'transgender' one day on a whim.
Those are as of yet still the regulations in place, and they have been in place because WA couldn’t find evidence as instructed by CAS that T levels mattered for some events.
Life isn't fair and sport isn't a livelihood, it's a gig that a few people take far too seriously. If you want protection for your own class then unionize with like-minded people and form a pro league that can exclude those you feel unworthy. I wouldn't criticize that. I'm not pro-trans in pro sports, but I just don't have time for these crocodile tears. Athletics isn't a real pro sport, so they get what comes to them as loosely affiliated free agents. If you want more sympathy then do something collaborative to create something greater than yourself and your petty self-interest.
The recent UK census showed 0.2% of the population are transgender. On average you'll meet two transgender people a year. The chances of meeting one in a professional shot put competition is even smaller.
First of all that only holds true if shot put/athletics has exactly the same rate of individuals who are transgender as the general population, which is unlikely to be true.
Regarding the comment about being brave, making comments like this can be career suicide. Also, women who speak out often get death threats, rape threats etc. Look up JK Rowling and what she had to deal with, it's extreme.
Yeah, look how these brave women's career had ended... wait, they haven't.
Chelsea MitchellSprints/Jumps - 60m - 7.77; 100m - 11.67; 200m - 24.79; Long Jump - 19-8.25 Prep Runner-up in the Emerging Elite Long Jump at the 2019 New Balance
College Also a member of Razorback soccer team … Played in 22 games during 2022 season, starting five, scoring two goals, with two assists for six points as Razorbacks compiled a 13-4-5 record and advanced four rounds into th...
So maybe Ms. Strickler should move back to the US, where she was born and lived in for her first 22 years. She would get a hero's welcome in at least half of the states.
But it would be so unfair if she had to compete against Chase Ealey and Maggie Ewen for a spot on the Olympic team.
Yea thats not correct. There has been a huge haul of palmares by trans and biological males in just the last few years post Semenya. I agree with you it may not be the "end" of women's sorts, but this sucks as some events are just pre determined.
Look up Nyonsaba, Mboma, Semnya. Big haul. Taking medals from Women. Even if you transition, you have the advantages of T when you developed. As far as DSD, I feel bad for them, but we have to draw the line.
Notice how you didn't list a single trans athlete.....
This celebratory article from Outsports gives the names of 28 male athletes claiming trans identities who either "have won national or international competitions" in women's sports or have racked up other major wins in the female category.
As you can see from the dates given in the article, the majority of the male athletes who are named have won big in women's and girls competition the past 5-6 years, and all except one have done so in the current century.
BTW, the list of names given by Outsports is far from complete. It leaves out a number of male athletes claiming trans identities who have racked up big wins and been awarded newsworthy titles and honors in female competition. Such as surfer Sasha Jane Lowerson, who at age 43 became the top title-holder in two Australian women's surfing events that Lowerson previously won when competing in the men's category; American June Eastwood, whose accomplishments in women's college running led to Eastwood being named Big Sky Conference Female Athlete of the Week; and Stephanie Barrett, a top-tier performer in Canadian, Pan American and world elite women's archery who was chosen to take the single spot given to Canada in women's archery at the 2021 Tokyo Olympics - quite a feat for someone who first picked a bow only 5 years before at age 37.
Notice how you didn't list a single trans athlete.....
This celebratory article from Outsports gives the names of 28 male athletes claiming trans identities who either "have won national or international competitions" in women's sports or have racked up other major wins in the female category.
As you can see from the dates given in the article, the majority of the male athletes who are named have won big in women's and girls competition the past 5-6 years, and all except one have done so in the current century.
BTW, the list of names given by Outsports is far from complete. It leaves out a number of male athletes claiming trans identities who have racked up big wins and been awarded newsworthy titles and honors in female competition. Such as surfer Sasha Jane Lowerson, who at age 43 became the top title-holder in two Australian women's surfing events that Lowerson previously won when competing in the men's category; American June Eastwood, whose accomplishments in women's college running led to Eastwood being named Big Sky Conference Female Athlete of the Week; and Stephanie Barrett, a top-tier performer in Canadian, Pan American and world elite women's archery who was chosen to take the single spot given to Canada in women's archery at the 2021 Tokyo Olympics - quite a feat for someone who first picked a bow only 5 years before at age 37.
wow brah this article REALLY blows the top off this WIDESPREAD issue.
Skimo, billiards, and roller derby - these ESPN OCHO level events need to be protected
“This will take away biological women’s livelihoods. We don’t stand a chance. We may as well give up now.”
By “biological women”, she presumably just means women currently medaling in global or international or national events of high prominence. By “take away livelihoods”, she means reduced income for those women who would’ve medaled but can no longer medal because of a trans or DSD woman medaling.
So a very tiny fraction of super elite women may see reduced income is presumably what she means. If trans or DSD women can actually reduce their T levels to below 2.5 that is, which is a pretty big If.
This celebratory article from Outsports gives the names of 28 male athletes claiming trans identities who either "have won national or international competitions" in women's sports or have racked up other major wins in the female category.
As you can see from the dates given in the article, the majority of the male athletes who are named have won big in women's and girls competition the past 5-6 years, and all except one have done so in the current century.
BTW, the list of names given by Outsports is far from complete. It leaves out a number of male athletes claiming trans identities who have racked up big wins and been awarded newsworthy titles and honors in female competition. Such as surfer Sasha Jane Lowerson, who at age 43 became the top title-holder in two Australian women's surfing events that Lowerson previously won when competing in the men's category; American June Eastwood, whose accomplishments in women's college running led to Eastwood being named Big Sky Conference Female Athlete of the Week; and Stephanie Barrett, a top-tier performer in Canadian, Pan American and world elite women's archery who was chosen to take the single spot given to Canada in women's archery at the 2021 Tokyo Olympics - quite a feat for someone who first picked a bow only 5 years before at age 37.
wow brah this article REALLY blows the top off this WIDESPREAD issue.
Skimo, billiards, and roller derby - these ESPN OCHO level events need to be protected
if we don't act now the SKIBALL regional championship for SW Florida might be next
This celebratory article from Outsports gives the names of 28 male athletes claiming trans identities who either "have won national or international competitions" in women's sports or have racked up other major wins in the female category.
As you can see from the dates given in the article, the majority of the male athletes who are named have won big in women's and girls competition the past 5-6 years, and all except one have done so in the current century.
BTW, the list of names given by Outsports is far from complete. It leaves out a number of male athletes claiming trans identities who have racked up big wins and been awarded newsworthy titles and honors in female competition. Such as surfer Sasha Jane Lowerson, who at age 43 became the top title-holder in two Australian women's surfing events that Lowerson previously won when competing in the men's category; American June Eastwood, whose accomplishments in women's college running led to Eastwood being named Big Sky Conference Female Athlete of the Week; and Stephanie Barrett, a top-tier performer in Canadian, Pan American and world elite women's archery who was chosen to take the single spot given to Canada in women's archery at the 2021 Tokyo Olympics - quite a feat for someone who first picked a bow only 5 years before at age 37.
Did you lift this list from the Onion? I mean some of them are hilarious. How exactly is there a biological difference in ability in darts or snooker? Disc golf? Even archery?
Notice how you didn't list a single trans athlete.....
This celebratory article from Outsports gives the names of 28 male athletes claiming trans identities who either "have won national or international competitions" in women's sports or have racked up other major wins in the female category.
As you can see from the dates given in the article, the majority of the male athletes who are named have won big in women's and girls competition the past 5-6 years, and all except one have done so in the current century.
BTW, the list of names given by Outsports is far from complete. It leaves out a number of male athletes claiming trans identities who have racked up big wins and been awarded newsworthy titles and honors in female competition. Such as surfer Sasha Jane Lowerson, who at age 43 became the top title-holder in two Australian women's surfing events that Lowerson previously won when competing in the men's category; American June Eastwood, whose accomplishments in women's college running led to Eastwood being named Big Sky Conference Female Athlete of the Week; and Stephanie Barrett, a top-tier performer in Canadian, Pan American and world elite women's archery who was chosen to take the single spot given to Canada in women's archery at the 2021 Tokyo Olympics - quite a feat for someone who first picked a bow only 5 years before at age 37.
So how many of those 28 people would be eligible under the new WA policy proposed here?
I don't think people with clear biological advantages should be allowed to compete as females, .....but there is ZERO threat to women's sports as a whole.
Zero.
I've been hearing about this 'end of women's sport' for years now and it's been nothing but a tiny blip. As a whole, women's sport is completely unchanged. The vast majority of the millions that compete in women's sport is completely unaffected in any meaningful way at all.
Even if a "tiny blip" you're referring to is one medal, well, a spot on a team, that's already unfair and enough to demand the change.
Shewon dot org has compiled a list of the names of some of the many female athletes who in recent years have been displaced from their rightful places on awards podiums in women's sports competition by males who say they identify as trans:
It's disingenuous to insist that the incursion of males into women's and girls' sports in recent years under the banner of "trans inclusion" isn't having a major psychologically-damaging, dispiriting and discouraging impact on a significant proportion of current female athletes at all levels of play and competition, on young female athletes just starting out and/or trying to rise up the ranks, and on young females still making up their minds about whether to begin doing girls' and women's sports in the first place.
Friendly reminder, this is an emotional topic for most. Please be respectful. Disagreeing strongly about the role of trans athletes in sport is fine but forgetting the humanity of trans athletes is not.
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