I started kindergarten in 1963. We had "duck and cover" drills, but since I grew up in California they called them earthquake drills. In fact ducking under your school desk makes a lot of sense in an earthquake. It's not gonna do much good in a nuclear war.
In the mid-west they were called tornado drills. We had them once a month at school, even in the winter when it wasn't tornado season. I guess they didn't want to frighten the kids.
I started school in 1966. The duck and cover drills stopped a year or two before. I always felt cheated that I did not have that experience.
I started kindergarten in 1963. We had "duck and cover" drills, but since I grew up in California they called them earthquake drills. In fact ducking under your school desk makes a lot of sense in an earthquake. It's not gonna do much good in a nuclear war.
I began kindergarten five years before you and remember the Cuban missile crisis very well -- but have no memory of duck and cover drills. My guess is we never did it.
Russia knows that it cannot use its nukes. If Russia launched a nuclear attack on a NATO country, - - -
I doubt Putin will nuke a NATO country. So far this war is playing out like Korea, Vietnam or Afghanistan - keep all the fighting within the country's borders. Putin's plan to hold referendums in four occupied districts could be considered a plan to take them out of the combat zone by making them part of Russia. If Ukraine then attacks them then Putin can claim the West, by proxy, has escalated the war to include territory outside of Ukraine.
That will be a pretty hollow argument but it may give Putin the excuse to escalate in response. If he does use nukes I think Kiev will be his target. I am not sure how the West will respond to that. Whether it be conventional, nuclear or cyber, any response would have to be directed at Russia itself rather than at Russian bank accounts or oligarchs' mansions and yachts.
Russia knows that it cannot use its nukes. If Russia launched a nuclear attack on a NATO country, it would just take two hits on Russia to effectively end the country. Russia is largely a rural country. Most of Russia's government and commerce are concentrated in St. Petersburg and Moscow. Then, there are about a dozen medium sized cities with a million to 1.5 mil people. If Russia strikes NATO with nuclear weapons, the response just has to take out Moscow and St. Petersburg and then Russia will effectively cease to exist and will revert to a few dozen provinces with no central government. The only way Russia could possibly avoid a counter strike is to launch a massive attack against every NATO nuclear power. But that kind of attack would trigger a nuclear winter and radiation from strikes on Western Europe would end up on Russian soil, poisoning crops and causing cancer across western Russia.
Ukraine is not a NATO country
I think the concern is that Putin would use a tactical nuke in Poland, on an industrial or military target, not so much in Ukraine (although that is possible).
Russia knows that it cannot use its nukes. If Russia launched a nuclear attack on a NATO country, it would just take two hits on Russia to effectively end the country. Russia is largely a rural country. Most of Russia's government and commerce are concentrated in St. Petersburg and Moscow. Then, there are about a dozen medium sized cities with a million to 1.5 mil people. If Russia strikes NATO with nuclear weapons, the response just has to take out Moscow and St. Petersburg and then Russia will effectively cease to exist and will revert to a few dozen provinces with no central government. The only way Russia could possibly avoid a counter strike is to launch a massive attack against every NATO nuclear power. But that kind of attack would trigger a nuclear winter and radiation from strikes on Western Europe would end up on Russian soil, poisoning crops and causing cancer across western Russia.
You're assuming Putin is a rational actor. I don't think we can make that assumption anymore. Putin is getting old and being humiliated in Ukraine. He might just take the whole world down with him on his way out, we don't know.
Russia knows that it cannot use its nukes. If Russia launched a nuclear attack on a NATO country, it would just take two hits on Russia to effectively end the country. Russia is largely a rural country. Most of Russia's government and commerce are concentrated in St. Petersburg and Moscow. Then, there are about a dozen medium sized cities with a million to 1.5 mil people. If Russia strikes NATO with nuclear weapons, the response just has to take out Moscow and St. Petersburg and then Russia will effectively cease to exist and will revert to a few dozen provinces with no central government. The only way Russia could possibly avoid a counter strike is to launch a massive attack against every NATO nuclear power. But that kind of attack would trigger a nuclear winter and radiation from strikes on Western Europe would end up on Russian soil, poisoning crops and causing cancer across western Russia.
Ukraine is not a NATO country
It would not make sense for Putin to use any type of nuclear weapon in just Ukraine because it would immediately draw NATO directly into the conflict. This would ensure a quick defeat for Russia. Ukraine is defeating Russia now and we have not even given them our more sophisticated weapons, like missiles with a range of more than 50 miles.
Even detonating a nuke as a test in Siberia somewhere would be a game changer and would mobilize the international community, even countries that have remained on the sidelines so far. It would also lead to revolts by the Russian people and Putin's advisors. It would be the end of Putin's control of Russia, and he knows that.
Russia knows that it cannot use its nukes. If Russia launched a nuclear attack on a NATO country, it would just take two hits on Russia to effectively end the country. Russia is largely a rural country. Most of Russia's government and commerce are concentrated in St. Petersburg and Moscow. Then, there are about a dozen medium sized cities with a million to 1.5 mil people. If Russia strikes NATO with nuclear weapons, the response just has to take out Moscow and St. Petersburg and then Russia will effectively cease to exist and will revert to a few dozen provinces with no central government. The only way Russia could possibly avoid a counter strike is to launch a massive attack against every NATO nuclear power. But that kind of attack would trigger a nuclear winter and radiation from strikes on Western Europe would end up on Russian soil, poisoning crops and causing cancer across western Russia.
Ukraine is not a NATO country
No it’s not. Roy is staying that pootin is threatening to strike the West for interfering.
I started school in 1966. The duck and cover drills stopped a year or two before. I always felt cheated that I did not have that experience.
I started kindergarten in 1963. We had "duck and cover" drills, but since I grew up in California they called them earthquake drills. In fact ducking under your school desk makes a lot of sense in an earthquake. It's not gonna do much good in a nuclear war.
Also started school that year. We did not do any duck and cover drills. Although I do not remember the Cuban missile crisis the specter of nuclear war was there, but it never felt immediately threatening. I think by then the Soviet leaders were so decrepit that they were not taken all that seriously. Things heated up a bit with Reagan's tough guy rhetoric, but by the time Gorbachev got in it did not feel so threatening.
I think the threat now is greater than any time since the early 1960s. Putin is rattling the nuclear sabre more than any leader that I can remember.
Sanctions have really hurt Russia and put them back on their heels. Unlike Tucker Carlson's claims, the idea behind sanctions wasn't to damage Russian exports (largely energy), but to damage imports. Material that Russia wants is going to Ukraine, material that Russia badly needs. The growing Russian surplus is not a condition of failure, it is a condition for success. The West is far richer than Russia, so we can afford to send them a bunch of money to sit around in a Treasury somewhere while Russia continues to lose badly needed military equipment. Russia is even starting to talk about building vehicles that don't need chips.
Putin hopes that cutting off Russian gas will bring new politicians in US and Europe to the table who will allow him to cut a deal-the pain would be too much. But the cut-off can only last so long-LNG terminals are being built all over Europe.
I think we all worry about the actions of a desparate man.
I spend all last night researching where in the US would be the likely first target of a nuke and how much an effective bomb shelter would cost to build. I know this probably isn't healthy but this guy has 6,000 nukes and I don't trust the Media that he's "bluffing."
Good reason to be.
The cabal that runs America and the West are insane
Can you outline for us just who are the members of this cabal, leadership, etc? Be specific please, no vague references. You seem very certain so it would be awesome to get the goods from someone in the know.
I spend all last night researching where in the US would be the likely first target of a nuke and how much an effective bomb shelter would cost to build. I know this probably isn't healthy but this guy has 6,000 nukes and I don't trust the Media that he's "bluffing."
I was on the base nuclear war reaction team when I was in the military. We did H-bomb scenarios every month. Here's what I learned and an approach that will help deal with the helpless feeling.
1. Find the nearest likely targets to you.
2. Determine the prevailing wind direction where you live.
3. If the target is 40 or so miles downwind, no problem. The prevailing wind will take fallout away from you. Your best bet is to "bug in" at home.
4. If the target is within 150 miles upwind, you need a bugout plan. Basically, you move at right angles to the direction of the target. Your reaction time is based on the distance to the target. At 30mph, you'd have maybe 5 hours to get out of the path, which gets wider and weaker the farther away you are from ground zero.
Likely targets would be big cities: NYC, DC, Chicago, major shipyards Norfolk and San Diego. Military installations and nuclear power plants would be next level targets... probably. I haven't done Nuclear War Games in ages.
Hmmm... You'd have had a bad time if you had been alive back during the Cuban Missile Crisis...
I was. We lived on a Strategic Air Command (SAC) base, with ICBM silos nearby. It would have been the first target for Soviet nukes. And honestly we really didn't worry much.
Our folks did a halfhearted thing about stocking the basement with supplies, and did a good job of not worrying the kids; but everyone pretty much knew that if the missiles started flying, we were done. NO duck-and-cover drills at our school, which was right on the base; but our parents gave us kids dogtags--in retrospect, probably so that it'd be easier to identify our remains.
Russia knows that it cannot use its nukes. If Russia launched a nuclear attack on a NATO country, it would just take two hits on Russia to effectively end the country. Russia is largely a rural country. Most of Russia's government and commerce are concentrated in St. Petersburg and Moscow. Then, there are about a dozen medium sized cities with a million to 1.5 mil people. If Russia strikes NATO with nuclear weapons, the response just has to take out Moscow and St. Petersburg and then Russia will effectively cease to exist and will revert to a few dozen provinces with no central government. The only way Russia could possibly avoid a counter strike is to launch a massive attack against every NATO nuclear power. But that kind of attack would trigger a nuclear winter and radiation from strikes on Western Europe would end up on Russian soil, poisoning crops and causing cancer across western Russia.
Yeah, I think the problem is that it seems Russia is preparing to use tactical nuclear weapons against the Ukrainian army or civilians, and if that happens, who the f knows what will happen next?
If you wake up tomorrow and see the news that Kherson has been destroyed by a small tactical Russian nuke, are you just going to continue eating your cornflakes like nothing has happened?
I spend all last night researching where in the US would be the likely first target of a nuke and how much an effective bomb shelter would cost to build. I know this probably isn't healthy but this guy has 6,000 nukes and I don't trust the Media that he's "bluffing."
Aren't you much more likely to die in a traffic accident?
Russia knows that it cannot use its nukes. If Russia launched a nuclear attack on a NATO country, it would just take two hits on Russia to effectively end the country. Russia is largely a rural country. Most of Russia's government and commerce are concentrated in St. Petersburg and Moscow. Then, there are about a dozen medium sized cities with a million to 1.5 mil people. If Russia strikes NATO with nuclear weapons, the response just has to take out Moscow and St. Petersburg and then Russia will effectively cease to exist and will revert to a few dozen provinces with no central government. The only way Russia could possibly avoid a counter strike is to launch a massive attack against every NATO nuclear power. But that kind of attack would trigger a nuclear winter and radiation from strikes on Western Europe would end up on Russian soil, poisoning crops and causing cancer across western Russia.
The scenario you neglected to cover, or failed to comprehend, is Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD). In such a scenario, Russia would not be using nukes for tit-for-tat hits on a NATO country. Rather, all their silos would be ‘emptied’, prompted by the final decision “if I can’t win, then nobody can!” Effectively, the world as we know it, would end within minutes.
Russia knows that it cannot use its nukes. If Russia launched a nuclear attack on a NATO country, it would just take two hits on Russia to effectively end the country. Russia is largely a rural country. Most of Russia's government and commerce are concentrated in St. Petersburg and Moscow. Then, there are about a dozen medium sized cities with a million to 1.5 mil people. If Russia strikes NATO with nuclear weapons, the response just has to take out Moscow and St. Petersburg and then Russia will effectively cease to exist and will revert to a few dozen provinces with no central government. The only way Russia could possibly avoid a counter strike is to launch a massive attack against every NATO nuclear power. But that kind of attack would trigger a nuclear winter and radiation from strikes on Western Europe would end up on Russian soil, poisoning crops and causing cancer across western Russia.
The scenario you neglected to cover, or failed to comprehend, is Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD). In such a scenario, Russia would not be using nukes for tit-for-tat hits on a NATO country. Rather, all their silos would be ‘emptied’, prompted by the final decision “if I can’t win, then nobody can!” Effectively, the world as we know it, would end within minutes.
Edit: “…all their silos (and of course, submarine canisters, etc.) would be ‘emptied’,…”