Its a freaking opinion, for god's sake. Gladwell isn't the end-all authority on elite running, so who really cares? And I like Gladwell for the most part.
Exactly. Can you imagine if we were in a group run and Malcolm says Willis had a better career than Centro and maybe there is a little back and forth. It ain’t that serious folks. Everyone expresses something which may be of dubious merit at times and Malcolm is no different.
Its a freaking opinion, for god's sake. Gladwell isn't the end-all authority on elite running, so who really cares? And I like Gladwell for the most part.
Exactly. Can you imagine if we were in a group run and Malcolm says Willis had a better career than Centro and maybe there is a little back and forth. It ain’t that serious folks. Everyone expresses something which may be of dubious merit at times and Malcolm is no different.
I don't think people are that angry or malicious. They just like pointing out how wrong they think this opinion it is.
If Malcolm Gladwell went on Pardon My Take and had a similar NBA take — let's say Kawhi Leonard "doesn't even belong in the same conversation as, say, Carmelo Anthony," it might be talked about in similar fashion.
Exactly. Can you imagine if we were in a group run and Malcolm says Willis had a better career than Centro and maybe there is a little back and forth. It ain’t that serious folks. Everyone expresses something which may be of dubious merit at times and Malcolm is no different.
I don't think people are that angry or malicious. They just like pointing out how wrong they think this opinion it is.
If Malcolm Gladwell went on Pardon My Take and had a similar NBA take — let's say Kawhi Leonard "doesn't even belong in the same conversation as, say, Carmelo Anthony," it might be talked about in similar fashion.
There have been personal attacks of Malcolm which seem out of place. The guy offered an opinion. No need for those attacks even if one disagrees with the opinion.
The Munk Debate on the Mainstream Media was held on November 30, 2022. The resolution to be debated was, "Be it resolved, don't trust the mainstream media."O...
Gladwell is one of those guys who seems smart when he's on a subject you know little about. He reads a couple of books on a subject, parrots them, and then finds something he thinks is a novel perspective and confidently pronounces on it. He's the ponytail guy from the bar scene in Good Will Hunting.
On this, he's not totally off base. Centro's Olympic gold seemingly puts him ahead, but Willis should have a gold and we all know it given that he was beaten by two convicted dopers in 2008. After that, they have kind of equivalent records. I'd say Centro's world indoor gold is equivalent to Willis's Commonwealth gold, and there's not much between a World outdoors silver and an Olympic bronze. Willis has run sub-3:30 which Centro never managed. And head-to-head over the 1500/mile, Willis has a 12-7 advantage.
However, to say Centro isn't in the same conversation as Willis is a bit stupid. They are very much in the same conversation
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
Gladwell is one of those guys who seems smart when he's on a subject you know little about. He reads a couple of books on a subject, parrots them, and then finds something he thinks is a novel perspective and confidently pronounces on it. He's the ponytail guy from the bar scene in Good Will Hunting.
On this, he's not totally off base. Centro's Olympic gold seemingly puts him ahead, but Willis should have a gold and we all know it given that he was beaten by two convicted dopers in 2008. After that, they have kind of equivalent records. I'd say Centro's world indoor gold is equivalent to Willis's Commonwealth gold, and there's not much between a World outdoors silver and an Olympic bronze. Willis has run sub-3:30 which Centro never managed. And head-to-head over the 1500/mile, Willis has a 12-7 advantage.
However, to say Centro isn't in the same conversation as Willis is a bit stupid. They are very much in the same conversation
If you want to boost Willis for losing to a doper, you must also boost Centro for DEFEATING dopers. Beating doped up Kiprop and Makloufi is bada$$.
Thus Centro should always be ranked ahead of Willis. Gladwell is CLUELESS.
Gladwell is one of those guys who seems smart when he's on a subject you know little about. He reads a couple of books on a subject, parrots them, and then finds something he thinks is a novel perspective and confidently pronounces on it. He's the ponytail guy from the bar scene in Good Will Hunting.
On this, he's not totally off base. Centro's Olympic gold seemingly puts him ahead, but Willis should have a gold and we all know it given that he was beaten by two convicted dopers in 2008. After that, they have kind of equivalent records. I'd say Centro's world indoor gold is equivalent to Willis's Commonwealth gold, and there's not much between a World outdoors silver and an Olympic bronze. Willis has run sub-3:30 which Centro never managed. And head-to-head over the 1500/mile, Willis has a 12-7 advantage.
However, to say Centro isn't in the same conversation as Willis is a bit stupid. They are very much in the same conversation
You can pick apart these points. In 2008, gifting Willis the Gold is misleading to me because the race is completely different if you remove the top 2 guys. Willis frequently ran for 3rd place and not 1st. This is part of greatness — did you attack championship races and go for the win or were you content to pick up the scraps (and hope for doping bans)? Let us be honest in evaluating his style of racing on the global scene. Maybe you could level this against Centro, but clearly he ran for the Gold in 2016 and it paid off. Willis as usual ran for 3rd and got 3rd.
In terms of races with real consequence (global finals): it's 4-1 Centrowitz, and that's excluding 2013 (Willis didn't make it) and the one Willis victory is 2015 when Willis got 6th and Centro 8th — hardly significant. At Millrose, the marquee indoor meet outside of Indoor Worlds for US-based athletes, Centro went 2-0 against Willis.
Willis has his Commonwealth Games Gold from 2006, but the field that year was unusually terrible (Nate Brannen and Mark Fountain got medals) — I'd rank Centro's US titles with that one. In future years ('10 and '14) with an A-level Kenyan or B-level Kenyan he was racing for 3rd. I'd say this is more to his discredit than credit. You can't tell me that Centro couldn't have a very good shot of doing better. It certainly doesn't cancel out the '16 World Indoors Gold, which was a head-to-head triumph for Centro.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
Gladwell is the most over-rated writer of our age. He is objectively BAD at writing.
That’s not right. Malcolm Gladwell IS a good writer. His books are engaging and keep you intrigued. He presents ideas from new angles and is able to distill research into easily digestible commentary and insight.
it also helps my point that he’s sold millions of copies of his books.
Gladwell is one of those guys who seems smart when he's on a subject you know little about. He reads a couple of books on a subject, parrots them, and then finds something he thinks is a novel perspective and confidently pronounces on it. He's the ponytail guy from the bar scene in Good Will Hunting.
On this, he's not totally off base. Centro's Olympic gold seemingly puts him ahead, but Willis should have a gold and we all know it given that he was beaten by two convicted dopers in 2008. After that, they have kind of equivalent records. I'd say Centro's world indoor gold is equivalent to Willis's Commonwealth gold, and there's not much between a World outdoors silver and an Olympic bronze. Willis has run sub-3:30 which Centro never managed. And head-to-head over the 1500/mile, Willis has a 12-7 advantage.
However, to say Centro isn't in the same conversation as Willis is a bit stupid. They are very much in the same conversation
If you want to boost Willis for losing to a doper, you must also boost Centro for DEFEATING dopers. Beating doped up Kiprop and Makloufi is bada$.
Thus Centro should always be ranked ahead of Willis. Gladwell is CLUELESS.
That is a good point. Wasn't Centro running for NOP at the time?
Gladwell is one of those guys who seems smart when he's on a subject you know little about. He reads a couple of books on a subject, parrots them, and then finds something he thinks is a novel perspective and confidently pronounces on it. He's the ponytail guy from the bar scene in Good Will Hunting.
On this, he's not totally off base. Centro's Olympic gold seemingly puts him ahead, but Willis should have a gold and we all know it given that he was beaten by two convicted dopers in 2008. After that, they have kind of equivalent records. I'd say Centro's world indoor gold is equivalent to Willis's Commonwealth gold, and there's not much between a World outdoors silver and an Olympic bronze. Willis has run sub-3:30 which Centro never managed. And head-to-head over the 1500/mile, Willis has a 12-7 advantage.
However, to say Centro isn't in the same conversation as Willis is a bit stupid. They are very much in the same conversation
You can pick apart these points. In 2008, gifting Willis the Gold is misleading to me because the race is completely different if you remove the top 2 guys. Willis frequently ran for 3rd place and not 1st. This is part of greatness — did you attack championship races and go for the win or were you content to pick up the scraps (and hope for doping bans)? Let us be honest in evaluating his style of racing on the global scene. Maybe you could level this against Centro, but clearly he ran for the Gold in 2016 and it paid off. Willis as usual ran for 3rd and got 3rd.
In terms of races with real consequence (global finals): it's 4-1 Centrowitz, and that's excluding 2013 (Willis didn't make it) and the one Willis victory is 2015 when Willis got 6th and Centro 8th — hardly significant. At Millrose, the marquee indoor meet outside of Indoor Worlds for US-based athletes, Centro went 2-0 against Willis.
Willis has his Commonwealth Games Gold from 2006, but the field that year was unusually terrible (Nate Brannen and Mark Fountain got medals) — I'd rank Centro's US titles with that one. In future years ('10 and '14) with an A-level Kenyan or B-level Kenyan he was racing for 3rd. I'd say this is more to his discredit than credit. You can't tell me that Centro couldn't have a very good shot of doing better. It certainly doesn't cancel out the '16 World Indoors Gold, which was a head-to-head triumph for Centro.
Sure, you make a good case that Centro had the better career, and I wouldn't disagree. I just wouldnt say it was signifacntly better than Willis's career. They're on the same sort of plane for me. Neither was indisputably the best, they both needed a lot to go right - and others to make mistakes - on the days of their biggest achievements. No shame in that, not everyone can be dominant and there's nothing wrong with 'just' being one the top 6 or so guys in your event
Sure, you make a good case that Centro had the better career, and I wouldn't disagree. I just wouldnt say it was signifacntly better than Willis's career. They're on the same sort of plane for me. Neither was indisputably the best, they both needed a lot to go right - and others to make mistakes - on the days of their biggest achievements. No shame in that, not everyone can be dominant and there's nothing wrong with 'just' being one the top 6 or so guys in your event
Yes I think it’s fair. Willis has legendary longevity on his side. But Gladwell did make the hot take that Centro didn’t belong in the conversation hence he deservedly gets dragged here.