9:20 3200m D1 Walk-on

D2

Man I am going to give you some good advice. I am a sophomore in college and I just transferred from a power 5 school to a D3 school to run. My PR's were 4:21,9:24,15:28 and I could not get a walk on spot. I am now super happy where I am I have a shot at nationals I still get to race D1 and I have a team. I have a friend that runs for Boulder and he runs a 13:50 5k and is not in the top 7 plain and simple you have no chance. But if you have any want to run in college I highly recommend going D3. Sure you might not get the Awesome insta post or loads of free gear but when you work your ass off and become an All-American I think it will make up for it. I would not recommend a Mid major D1 most of them are dumpster fires and you probably will not amount to much. Find a fast D3 maybe D2 school. If you are in Colorado. Mines, UCCS, Western, Mesa are all D2 but quality programs.

Focus on the 800m

Penn State just gave out a full ride to an international kid with a 1:48, 4:05 1500m PB. Yes, the 1:48 can immediately compete, but here on Letsrun we'd be bashing his 4:05 and he could never get a full ride P5

appreciate the advice. Looking for a good community in college both on and off the track and I get the sense that even if I could squeak into a P5 d1 team it just wouldn't be that hype. Plus I would hardly know the coach, wouldn't be much of an asset for him. Def not at that level, to be honest. looking at some schools similar to those you mentioned.

999op wrote:

Could I walk onto CU boulder with a 9:20 next year? 50mpw off season, 35 in season. If not 9:20, where's the line? 9:10? Would appreciate your thoughts.

Is D1 even worth it for someone running low 9:20's who DOESN'T need scholarship cash? D3 better option?

A 9:20 guy at 40 mpw should be allowed to walk on anywhere in the country.

Is that actually the case? I don't know.

My understanding is if with that type of time if you try to walk on Wetmore will say to you, run 70-80 mpw for a year and get back gto me. I think it's good advice.

All of that being said, your question is misguided. You are 100% D1 material, paticularly if finances aren't an issue. But why do you want to walk on to a top 5 program? There are a ton of other programs as well where you'd be a better fit. At D3, you'd kind of be a bit of a stud. So that's an option. It's up to you.

I was stunned as during the pandemic I helped coach a kid who ran lik 9:19 and was state champ in a lower division as his state meet. He either wasn't allowed to walk on or didn't make his shitty power 5's xc team. I think he'd be top 7 eventually.

I think that would be true in any normal year. But there is a bit of backlog with the pandemic free year. I agree with the Whetmore approach: take a year, get your mileage up, hit some times, and take another shot at it in the following year.

Also, it’s getting easier and easier to transfer if you do blossom after high school.

You would think that Rojo would know better having been a former D1 coach, but he's wrong.

9:20 guys can NOT just walk on anywhere, so I don't know why he would say the should be able to.

In 2019, pre-COVID, there were 399 HS boys who ran 9:20 or better here in the US. This doesn't include all of the international students who were as fast or faster who come here every year to go to college.

There are only 358 D1 colleges in the US, and not all of those have distance programs. There is nothing magical about 9:20. It's a nice time. Many 9:20 HS guys go on to be great college runners, but not all D1 programs are waiting with open arms for a 9:20 guy, no matter how many miles he ran in high school.

999op wrote:

Could I walk onto CU boulder with a 9:20 next year? 50mpw off season, 35 in season. If not 9:20, where's the line? 9:10? Would appreciate your thoughts.

Is D1 even worth it for someone running low 9:20's who DOESN'T need scholarship cash? D3 better option?

Are you a HS senior now? If so, then you’ve probably missed your best opportunity to leverage your talent to gain admission to a top D3 program. For sure 9:20 on relatively low mileage will open doors for you at top D3 programs assuming you are academically qualified. Most of the coaches will have used their allocated admission spots for runners already admitted now through early decision. So this cycle their protected spots are likely gone. Maybe not all, but many. If so, you’ll have to gain admission to the best D3 schools through the normal route based mostly on academics. The coaches will not be able to help as much if at all. Of course, if you are admitted they will be thrilled to have you on their teams.

If your a junior, up your mileage and run 9:10 or better and you’ll have many great options.

999op wrote:

Could I walk onto CU boulder with a 9:20 next year? 50mpw off season, 35 in season. If not 9:20, where's the line? 9:10? Would appreciate your thoughts.

Is D1 even worth it for someone running low 9:20's who DOESN'T need scholarship cash? D3 better option?

To your question, walking on to Colorado's team with a 9:20? No.

Rojo was right to question you about why you want to go to a top program. You are not top program material. Go find a team you can actually make. Better yet, find a team in a conference where you can score points in track and eventually compete to win the conference title in CC. You're good enough for that, potentially. You're not good enough to make Colorado's team. Not today anyway. Do 100 MPW for a year, then maybe, but there's not guarantee, meanwhile you're training by yourself with no guarantee of ever getting on the team if you go there.

Find a better fit.

JoeMamaHahaNice wrote:I would not recommend a Mid major D1 most of them are dumpster fires and you probably will not amount to much.

This shows you have no idea what you are talking about. Most XC teams in the Power 5 are dumpster fires - there are 20-25 strong teams but 50+ mediocre teams (not close to nationals level) and several teams that are outright garbage. Schools that are football driven treat their XC teams like trash.

There are dozens of mid-major teams that annihilate Power 5 teams EVERY YEAR. Northern Arizona is considered a mid-major. Tulsa 6th in the NCAA. Portland is always good. Georgetown and Villanova are considered mid-majors and are distance powerhouses. Gonzaga, Butler, Furman, just to name a few. Charlotte beat Duke, Virginia, and Virginia Tech at regionals.

When it comes to DEVELOPMENT, most of the best coaches in the NCAA are at mid-majors. A lot of Power 5 programs will burn you out within 6 months and then kick you off the team. There are tons of mid-major coaches that can bring you along patiently and potentially get you sub 14 in the 5k by your junior year.

I'm a senior now. I don't want to give too much personal info away but I ran in the 9:40s last year with an injury, split 5:00/4:4X, with a 65 last lap. I know that's nothing crazy, but just for context. Feeling WAY stronger than I did then, aerobically and after adding consistent gym work in XC.

I didn't feel absolutely in love to any of the d3's I talked to, or the couple local mid-majors that showed some light interest. Didn't commit anywhere because of that. Academics are competitive (or at least I hope so—I'll find out this spring!)

Mostly this question was based around this: if I have what I would consider to be a "good" season this track season (most things fall in place), would I be able to walk onto CU (one of my "safety" schools).

I'm confident I can dip into 9:1X if I stay healthy. I have a lot of faith in my coach and what I've been doing on my own in the offseason right now. Average season based on how my training/mindset is at would be 9:25 for me, imo.

oops just posed non-anonymously! Oh well. that's my reply though wise old man

Appreciate it rojo, I love the podcast.

I'm looking for the middle ground where I have good training partners my jr/sr year of college. Grinding D3 where there isn't a huge team emphasis on performance isn't exactly what I want.

I really like the D3's I've talked to/applied to, but with the exception of 1 or 2 of them I don't feel like they have that super competitive atmosphere.

I know, academics first, but I really want to give running a shot while at a decent school. I DID apply to some mid-majors that would take a low 9:20s guy because of this. Getting in the mid-low 14s for 5k 3 years from now., then move up from there. I think it's doable! I know I'm not a stud now, and being a d3 stud isn't my dream. I want to be competitive at the highest level academically and athletically. I reached out to some Ivy's, but they're not dying for some junior who's only ran in the 9:40s. I guess we'll see how applications play out, but that's some more context for anyone who's curious to this predicament.

To everyone who's posted: thanks for offering your view, I appreciate it.

By the way rojo, let me know if your all-walk-on 9:30 3200m NIL team comes to fruition. I'm IN.

senior who only ran in the 9:40s, that's what I meant 2 posts ago^^.

So, you haven't even yet run in the 9:30s? You can't walk on at many mid-majors with a 9:40s PR which seems like it's 9:49 since you won't tell us the exact time. Confident you can run under 9:20? That and a quarter will buy you nothing. You need to run under 9:10 for Colorado to even listen to you. If you run 9:08 and you show improvement from the "9:40s" from the previous year and you tell them you were only running 50 MPW at your most, then they might give you a shot, at least I would, but that's a tall order you are unlikely to fill. You area a long way from 9:08. This is not a dream to pursue.

Have to agree with Someonewhoknows; not to rain on your parade as you sound like a good guy btw. But even a relatively modest 5k goal like 14:30 means you need to at least be at 9:00 or better for your 3200 pr as you need to hit 9:15ish through 3200 on the way to that 14:30. You're a long ways from that at the moment. If you want to enjoy your running career and have a great time progressing to the next level in your running, whatever that is, I'd focus on finding a team at whatever level with a coach who is enjoyable to run for and does not treat his/her athletes like pieces of meat, and academics which align with your current goals there as well. See if you can get to 15:30 first, bite-sized doable goals. Just my .02 of course; good luck!

I ran 9:20 in 2009, which now seems like a whole different era. In the '00s, 9:20 was kind of like what 9 flat is now. Back then, you would have coaches who could recruit 9:40 guys (with a token low-9s guy) and took a squad to Nationals. Now those same programs recruit sub-9 guys and haven't qualified for nationals in over a decade.

Same boat, running joke. I graduated 2010 ran 9:35 and got a full ride C-USA... which then was probably what a sub-9:15 is now. Eras evolve...

running joke wrote:

I ran 9:20 in 2009, which now seems like a whole different era. In the '00s, 9:20 was kind of like what 9 flat is now. Back then, you would have coaches who could recruit 9:40 guys (with a token low-9s guy) and took a squad to Nationals. Now those same programs recruit sub-9 guys and haven't qualified for nationals in over a decade.