After this morning’s result I’m struggling to find enjoyment in following this sport

And its really never occurred to you that women's records are being broken so frequently now because there are a lot more women running competitively than in the past?

You know, what with marathon running only being introduced as competitive events in the 80s, you never thought about it taking women longer to catch up in terms of numbers of competitors to men (still not at parity). Never heard of peer pressure or social attitudes affecting women at all? Greater competition improving times?

What do you think mens running would be like if men had been banned from competing over further than 800m until 40 years ago in case their penises got damaged?

The reason I'm losing interest is that the sport isn't as international as it used to be. Look at Rotterdam 1983, NYC and Chicago from the 80's, etc.

I know the Kenyans and Ethiopians are the best but I would like to see an international road race (10k to Marathon) with more than just Kenyans and Ethiopians at the front.

Kind of like College football- I'm sick of Alabama year in and year out.

The same teams make that stupid playoff they have every year.

notsatirepost wrote:

After this morning’s result I’m struggling to find enjoyment in following this sport

Good. Becoming a bowling fan. And take all the other ignorant knee-jerk cynics with you. That'll leave more seats in Eugene for those of us who know something about the sport's history.

astro wrote:

When sonething seems like doping in this sport, it is. It is PEDs.

Or maybe it is bc it wasn't until pretty recently that women were even allowed to run marathon distances so that's why the records are behind the men's (in terms of quality/depth) and thus large improvement is possible still

This looks strongly like paralysis by analysis.

colder and wiser wrote:

notsatirepost wrote:

To find a similar improvement in the men’s half, you have to go all the way back to 2006.

This sentences is really something. You have to go all the way back to 2006, you say? Well.

I think what he meant by this was that the same progression (1 min 20 ish) since 2020, has taken the 15 years since 2006 to be realised by the men.

Then don't follow it. I stopped following the elite side of the sport years ago. I don't care in the least what the elites do, because I don't control them. Some elite is underperforming? So what? It makes no difference in my life at all.

You know what I can control? My running. I can choose to train to the best of my ability, eat a good diet, get adequate rest, and then go run a race myself, taking satisfaction in the outcome while learning to improve next time.

Forget about the elites. Look in the mirror. That's where the real challenge, and the real joy, in the sport lies. You will never find real fulfillment as a spectator.

By any chance, are you implying she is doping? Is that your message between the lines?

notsatirepost wrote:

And I cannot be the only one.

…

This is a mini rant before I fully process this result I tried being fair with some counterpoints. Congratulations to Gidey, it just doesn’t sit right with me

Boohoo. No, you haven’t been fair. Have you considered perhaps that you can’t process the result because, subconsciously, it feels like some “creature” from Africa blasted on to the GOAT scene? You would totally lap up the pride if it was an American with broadcast channels going on and on about her humble upbringings in Iowa or something. (Or some place in whatever non-African country to which you belong.)

Maybe she is more talented and/or smarter than others including American women runners. Nobody said any amount of dope whatsoever is illegal, not to mention there is no way to enforce that. WADA has limits and procedures to enforce testing. She’s smart enough to have not failed a test yet. You’ve got to be kidding yourself if you think western runners are squeaky clean.

It’s a level playing field.

notsatirepost wrote:

RunningFromTime wrote:

You're an idiot - The Tokyo 10k was run under oppressive heat and humidity. Gidey tried to push the pace hard in the middle 5-6k to drop hassan but was unsuccessful, paid the price, and everyone knows she lacks a kick

If you can't be amazed and "joyful" after this half marathon this morning, maybe look into therapy to think through your issues

Insulting me like that says more about yourself than it does about me. I acknowledged her lack of a kick. This is an incredible result and sets an entirely new standard for the women’s 1/2-marathon. People were skeptical of kipchoge running 2:01 And he’s the undeniable marathon goat. This performance is arguably a bigger outlier, skepticism is fair.

True. I mean if nothing else, do the math on her 5k average for 1/2 marathon (like 14 50) and go compare that to the best 5ks of all time for americans. I know we are not east african, but come on? Rowbury, Monson, JS would struggle mightily to complete ONE of those 5k segments at their best on a track. Thats seems off. ( SH and KS with BTC notwithstanding). MHuddle best 1450 on the road?

runn wrote:

The reason I'm losing interest is that the sport isn't as international as it used to be. Look at Rotterdam 1983, NYC and Chicago from the 80's, etc.

I know the Kenyans and Ethiopians are the best but I would like to see an international road race (10k to Marathon) with more than just Kenyans and Ethiopians at the front.

Boohoo, then stop following the sport. That’s a strange desire, to see more than just Kenyans and Ethiopians dominating distance. Many sports have a tiny number of countries dominating it for extended periods of time (like decades).

Factually speaking, distance is more international now than back in the 80s when Kenyans and Ethiopians were just starting out and weren’t getting representation commensurate to their talent.

doctorj wrote:

By any chance, are you implying she is doping? Is that your message between the lines?

It’s not even in between the lines. Just straight up on your face othering of African people and American exceptionalism hard at work.

Boohoo, then stop following the sport. That’s a strange desire, to see more than just Kenyans and Ethiopians dominating distance. Many sports have a tiny number of countries dominating it for extended periods of time (like decades).

Factually speaking, distance is more international now than back in the 80s when Kenyans and Ethiopians were just starting out and weren’t getting representation commensurate to their talent.[/quote]

Boo Hoo. I just thought it was more interesting. when competitive runners would be from more nations.

With the doping allegations flying all over the place so we really know that the 10 Kenyans/Ethiopians are legit running these fast times?

astro wrote:

When sonething seems like doping in this sport, it is. It is PEDs.

so what is the new PED? Seriously if you surviced the 5k record going from 1258 50 1237 in a decade with dozens of guys crushing the old record, this isnt anything to get excited about. Herr at least we know the shoes are helping.

If a guy ran 29:10/62:52, would you go crazy? Go look through the Japan HM list and you will find a dozen guys with PRs like that for the endurance sode runners.

The women's half marathon world record was 73 minutes when Joan Benoit was running it around 1980/1981. Then it was 69 minutes only a year later, then Joan got it back at 68 minutes in 1984. Then 1990 we had the first sub 68. Then in 2001 a Kenyan gets the record for the first time taking 2 minutes off to run 65:44, what were people saying back then? Were saying how it's impossible that a woman ran 65:44 when the previous records were in the 67's and 68's so it must be all from new shoes (maybe the shoes were way better in 2001 than 1985, and maybe shoes in 1985 were way better than 1975)... We need to quit saying anytime a person runs fast is because of the shoes. There have been big advancements along the way for a long time. Shoes have continually improved, tracks have continually improved, and also over time road races have begun to be designed as the fastest possible course, and top athletes show up at the fastest of them all to try and run a new PR.

There’s ony one solution. STOP FOLLOWING THE SPORT. Immediately. You are what is wrong with the sport so get the f out of it. The sport will be better the sooner the letsrun mob banishes themselves.

It’s not even just technology though it’s role is undeniable. Humans are almost certainly improving as well in two ways:

(1) Sampling: Mathematically, if you keep drawing more and more samples from an unchanging but infinite “talent distribution”, the maximum value will keep increasing over time unless humanity lucked out and found the absolute maximum already in the past.

This is like saying if you keep tossing a coin and keep counting the maximum number of consecutive heads, within, say, 10 million flips, you will keep getting seemingly ever increasing counts.

(2) Evolution: Humanity’s talent distribution is almost certainly not stationary but improving over time. If there is any component of running that is genetically determined, interbreeding over time is overwhelmingly likely to produce humans with ever increasing potential. It is theoretically possible for breeding patterns to occur in a way such that running talent is lost over time, but not if mate selection is essentially randomly selecting random mates or selecting a mate who also has good running potential (as opposed to everyone consistently selecting terrible runners because, say, running talent is an existential liability and therefore gets evolved out slowly).

This is like saying if you keep finding new coins in nature that are equally likely to be biased towards heads or tails or more likely to be biased towards heads (but not systematically biased towards tails over time), and keep doing the consecutive-heads-counting experiment described above, you will keep getting seemingly ever increasing counts.