Columbus Marathon Recap-was running well and blew up to a 3:20:01. Still a PR.

Columbus is a PERFECT course to PR. I've run it twice and it is about as fast as any other non-downhill course in the country. You don't want to set your "PR" on a Revel course or Cal International because it just puts an asterisk beside it. Weather can be perfect, too. Aiming for 3:15 and hitting halfway in 1:33:45 is a bit too fast. Aim for anywhere from 1:35:00-1:35:30 and you will be alright. Not many 3+ hour marathoners can negative split a marathon so try to hit the HM mark slightly ahead of pace. Be careful of getting caught up in the crowd noise when you come through halfway. With the figure-8 course, you run through a very large crowd at the HM mark, the same crowd you see at the finish. That was my mistake the first time I ran Columbus. Ended up coming through half in 1:22 and started to pay for it around 17 or so.

This thread has been honestly good (no sarcasm). Appreciate it, Cbus Advice.

CIM sounds fun and I would still run it just out of curiosity. What is a Revel course?

I found a calculator that breaks down an expected time into milesplits, so I'll print that out and use that as the target for my next one. I'll waterproof it too with packing tape as others said.

This is the old CoolRunning pace calculator that someone was able to smartly take and re-use after CoolRunning ended operations. Simple and effective.

1:35/1:40?

Wouldn't he be better going 1:37/1:38 to hit the 3:15? I get what you're saying about not negative splitting, but 1:35 still seems too fast, and he went out too fast already as it was.

I've used pace bands but honestly - my eyes are starting to age and the wee numbers are hard to read while running! I've switched to printing out a few key goal times (every other mile, or 5km or whatever) to check my OVERALL time as I run. It's a bit larger than a business card, printed front and back and I stick it in one of those small pockets most running shorts have. I use packing tape to waterproof it and check it every now and then to make sure I'm on target and not banking too much time too early.

But the real key - turn the autolap on your Garmin OFF and go by the course markers. If your watch is set so the screens are mostly info on that lap, you can check how you're doing for that mile. Yesterday in Cbus, most of the miles were pretty close to matching my Garmin - I missed a few markers but they all seemed to be within the range of 0.99 to 1.02 (1-2%) for each mile, which is only a few seconds' difference in pace. Over the course of the entire race, those distances add up (I showed 26.54 miles) but if you watch it mile by mile, you'll likely do a better job monitoring your pace. If a course marker is WAY off, you'll know it because your Garmin will show something more/less than ~2% difference, and you won't freak out and change your pace.

I coach XC and we wheel out the courses before every meet - it's pretty telling to see the difference between a wheel and my Garmin so I've put less faith in my Garmin; it's a good tool to use to approximate my distance/pace, but over the course of a long race the difference can be pretty big. The more turns, the less accurate (unless you have your Garmin set on Data Recording for every second which drains your battery quickly).

Hang in there, Jecht... not a bad effort... and am certain you have faster times ahead... if you put the work in and manage/avoid injury.

In checking the results, I saw this old dude turned in a sub-3... is this the Kellogg who coached WeJo?

https://www.mtecresults.com/runner/show?rid=2090&race=12016

Yes. Best advice I ever got was to go out at 1:30 if I really wanted to break 3:00. Went 1:29:45 and then 1:27 on the back half it was awesome. Negative splitting is certainly doable for us regular folks and is indeed optimal.

evensplitter wrote:

inclines and camber? wrote:

1:35/1:40?

Wouldn't he be better going 1:37/1:38 to hit the 3:15? I get what you're saying about not negative splitting, but 1:35 still seems too fast, and he went out too fast already as it was.

Yes. Best advice I ever got was to go out at 1:30 if I really wanted to break 3:00. Went 1:29:45 and then 1:27 on the back half it was awesome. Negative splitting is certainly doable for us regular folks and is indeed optimal.

Would second CIM as being another downhill PR course .

If you're really in sub-3 shape, and not much more, splitting in 1:30 will probably put you over... it's dang hard to negative split.

I can't recall anyone I've run with pulling off a negative split in the marathon... took me 10 tries to get one... barely... and that was at Boston which has a long downhill finish.

marathon 1 - 1:27:28/1:35:03 (3:02:31) +7:35

marathon 2 - 1:31:11/1:38:02 (3:09:13) +6:51

marathon 3 - 1:23:38/1:27:16 (2:50:54) +3:38

marathon 4 - 1:25:11/1:28:56 (2:54:07) +2:59

marathon 5 - 1:26:06/1:28:55 (2:55:01) +2:49

marathon 6 - 1:29:11/1:30:17 (2:59:28) +1:06

marathon 7 - 1:25:53/1:34:02 (2:59:55) +8:09

marathon 8 - 1:26:53/1:28:27 (2:55:20) +1:34

marathon 9 - 1:24:27/1:29:30 (2:53:57) +5:03

marathon 10 - 1:29:00/1:28:54 (2:57:54) -0:06

Ernest wrote:

evensplitter wrote:

Yes. Best advice I ever got was to go out at 1:30 if I really wanted to break 3:00. Went 1:29:45 and then 1:27 on the back half it was awesome. Negative splitting is certainly doable for us regular folks and is indeed optimal.

Would second CIM as being another downhill PR course .

If you're really in sub-3 shape, and not much more, splitting in 1:30 will probably put you over... it's dang hard to negative split.

I can't recall anyone I've run with pulling off a negative split in the marathon... took me 10 tries to get one... barely... and that was at Boston which has a long downhill finish.

marathon 1 - 1:27:28/1:35:03 (3:02:31) +7:35

marathon 2 - 1:31:11/1:38:02 (3:09:13) +6:51

marathon 3 - 1:23:38/1:27:16 (2:50:54) +3:38

marathon 4 - 1:25:11/1:28:56 (2:54:07) +2:59

marathon 5 - 1:26:06/1:28:55 (2:55:01) +2:49

marathon 6 - 1:29:11/1:30:17 (2:59:28) +1:06

marathon 7 - 1:25:53/1:34:02 (2:59:55) +8:09

marathon 8 - 1:26:53/1:28:27 (2:55:20) +1:34

marathon 9 - 1:24:27/1:29:30 (2:53:57) +5:03

marathon 10 - 1:29:00/1:28:54 (2:57:54) -0:06

Have you been trying to break sub 2:50 for a while? Curious because I am and I’m on attempt number 3.

Ernest wrote:

evensplitter wrote:

Yes. Best advice I ever got was to go out at 1:30 if I really wanted to break 3:00. Went 1:29:45 and then 1:27 on the back half it was awesome. Negative splitting is certainly doable for us regular folks and is indeed optimal.

Would second CIM as being another downhill PR course .

If you're really in sub-3 shape, and not much more, splitting in 1:30 will probably put you over... it's dang hard to negative split.

I can't recall anyone I've run with pulling off a negative split in the marathon... took me 10 tries to get one... barely... and that was at Boston which has a long downhill finish.

marathon 1 - 1:27:28/1:35:03 (3:02:31) +7:35

marathon 2 - 1:31:11/1:38:02 (3:09:13) +6:51

marathon 3 - 1:23:38/1:27:16 (2:50:54) +3:38

marathon 4 - 1:25:11/1:28:56 (2:54:07) +2:59

marathon 5 - 1:26:06/1:28:55 (2:55:01) +2:49

marathon 6 - 1:29:11/1:30:17 (2:59:28) +1:06

marathon 7 - 1:25:53/1:34:02 (2:59:55) +8:09

marathon 8 - 1:26:53/1:28:27 (2:55:20) +1:34

marathon 9 - 1:24:27/1:29:30 (2:53:57) +5:03

marathon 10 - 1:29:00/1:28:54 (2:57:54) -0:06

Congrats on #10! I have a bunch of negative splits including my two best times but never could do it in Boston. Yet.

thanks again for the update wrote:

Ernest wrote:

Would second CIM as being another downhill PR course .

If you're really in sub-3 shape, and not much more, splitting in 1:30 will probably put you over... it's dang hard to negative split.

I can't recall anyone I've run with pulling off a negative split in the marathon... took me 10 tries to get one... barely... and that was at Boston which has a long downhill finish.

marathon 1 - 1:27:28/1:35:03 (3:02:31) +7:35

marathon 2 - 1:31:11/1:38:02 (3:09:13) +6:51

marathon 3 - 1:23:38/1:27:16 (2:50:54) +3:38

marathon 4 - 1:25:11/1:28:56 (2:54:07) +2:59

marathon 5 - 1:26:06/1:28:55 (2:55:01) +2:49

marathon 6 - 1:29:11/1:30:17 (2:59:28) +1:06

marathon 7 - 1:25:53/1:34:02 (2:59:55) +8:09

marathon 8 - 1:26:53/1:28:27 (2:55:20) +1:34

marathon 9 - 1:24:27/1:29:30 (2:53:57) +5:03

marathon 10 - 1:29:00/1:28:54 (2:57:54) -0:06

Have you been trying to break sub 2:50 for a while? Curious because I am and I’m on attempt number 3.

Nope... I was 39 when I put up that 2:50... there was probably a 2:45 there, but I had calf problems and had stop several times to stretch it out. I was such a noob, I couldn't drink and run then, so walked through the pit stops.

I figured there was always next time... but there wasn't... and won't be... it would take an insane amount of training for me to get close to or beat that now...

Ernest wrote:

thanks again for the update wrote:

Have you been trying to break sub 2:50 for a while? Curious because I am and I’m on attempt number 3.

Nope... I was 39 when I put up that 2:50... there was probably a 2:45 there, but I had calf problems and had stop several times to stretch it out. I was such a noob, I couldn't drink and run then, so walked through the pit stops.

I figured there was always next time... but there wasn't... and won't be... it would take an insane amount of training for me to get close to or beat that now...

Interesting. I too had a string of exactly 8 sub3s until it ended in a hot Boston, and never did break 2:50.

Ernest wrote:

evensplitter wrote:

Yes. Best advice I ever got was to go out at 1:30 if I really wanted to break 3:00. Went 1:29:45 and then 1:27 on the back half it was awesome. Negative splitting is certainly doable for us regular folks and is indeed optimal.

Would second CIM as being another downhill PR course .

If you're really in sub-3 shape, and not much more, splitting in 1:30 will probably put you over... it's dang hard to negative split.

I can't recall anyone I've run with pulling off a negative split in the marathon... took me 10 tries to get one... barely... and that was at Boston which has a long downhill finish.

marathon 1 - 1:27:28/1:35:03 (3:02:31) +7:35

marathon 2 - 1:31:11/1:38:02 (3:09:13) +6:51

marathon 3 - 1:23:38/1:27:16 (2:50:54) +3:38

marathon 4 - 1:25:11/1:28:56 (2:54:07) +2:59

marathon 5 - 1:26:06/1:28:55 (2:55:01) +2:49

marathon 6 - 1:29:11/1:30:17 (2:59:28) +1:06

marathon 7 - 1:25:53/1:34:02 (2:59:55) +8:09

marathon 8 - 1:26:53/1:28:27 (2:55:20) +1:34

marathon 9 - 1:24:27/1:29:30 (2:53:57) +5:03

marathon 10 - 1:29:00/1:28:54 (2:57:54) -0:06

A couple things. Columbus is a fair course to PR on. I wouldn't say it's lightning fast but I PR'd there by 4 minutes in 2019 and it's still my PR to this day. They changed the course slightly this past year to make it much easier. You think Beekman is tough, try going up lane ave.

Sunday was perfect weather for a big day. Your training partner "H" executed a fantastic race out there. Good to see her hit one of her goals. Averageforfun rocked a 2:47:57 off of a 1:25:10 opening 13.1. He executed his race plan perfectly:

I think the key takeaway here is you got trigger happy and it led to a painful last 6 miles for you. Kudos for you for finishing it out. Your sub 7 miles in there sealed your fate. No reason to be running a 6:40 mile at mile 13. I've been there before both times at Boston at this point. A 5:39 in 2019 and a 5:32 this year sealed my fate a bit. Even just looking at my paces for Columbus it looks like I got really excited at mile 13 too, 17 seconds faster than mile 12. I almost cratered at mile 25 there and pulled it together for a negative split and my best time. I think I was 75:40ish and finished in 2:30 mid. (

)

Key is trying to temper that excitement. Running in your backyard is a ton of fun but can also lead you to throwing away your race plan because you let the excitement of the crowd dictate your race. I personally would take some down time and let the body heal up and then attack something in the spring. Patience will always be your best friend in this distance. It's your second one, relax, celebrate the accomplishment and rest up for the next one.

jecht wrote:

interested lurker wrote:

If your A goal was 3:15, just kinda seems like your pacing was bad, no? Still, nice work and PR!

I am a little mad at myself for going out too fast. But I'm hoping to find another marathon soon where I can fix that.

I put in the work this year--1600 miles--but that might not be enough base? Averaged 55 mpw with a peak of 64. Or it could be I have no talent lol

40 mile weeks. You might try 60 mpw for a year and reach your goal.

When I ran I looked at the mile splits on the watch, but I also did mental calculations in my head between each white milepost sign. I'm used to NOT having a smartwatch either. Ran the 2019 one with just a Timex 1441.

Thank you beersandmiles!

H did great! :)

I truly appreciate the feedback, I've read a lot of your posts and you know what you're talking about.

This is one of the few LRC threads that didn't devolve into name-calling or trolling lol in a long time.

The part I bolded that you wrote is I think what happened to me. Backyard, home course, etc. At least I wasn't the Browns bonking against the Cards AT HOME (Baker threw a pick and the D stunk as always--sorry, I'm a huge Browns fan and I am not afraid to show it).

jecht wrote:

I found a calculator that breaks down an expected time into milesplits, so I'll print that out and use that as the target for my next one. I'll waterproof it too with packing tape as others said.

This is the old CoolRunning pace calculator that someone was able to smartly take and re-use after CoolRunning ended operations. Simple and effective.

Here is another good pace calculator. It doesn't give even pacing splits - it takes the elevation changes into account for the course. You can use it for basically any marathon in the US.

We're going to the Super Bowl!

Dude...if you want to run 3:15, run an easy 1:38 for the first half. You may not need more 5k/10k speed, you just need to race smarter.

Have a good plan and stick to it. It's not brain surgery.

inclines and camber? wrote:

1:35/1:40?

Wouldn't he be better going 1:37/1:38 to hit the 3:15? I get what you're saying about not negative splitting, but 1:35 still seems too fast, and he went out too fast already as it was.

Ideally 1:37/1:38 would be much better but I have found most of us mere mortals struggle to run such even splits. I guess 1:35 might be a little fast, but I would still try to hit halfway no slower than 1:36. I think 1:36/1:39 is more like a typical 3+ hour runner.