How is Jamaica so dominate at sprinting despite having a small population?

Jetag wrote:

Trainwreck watcher

The situation in Brazil, and in most other South American countries but especially Brazil, is the same as in the USA. There is already a dominant sports culture which is takes on the best athletes, soccer. If you are fast and have even a little bit of soccer talent, becoming a sprinter will not be even a secondary consideration in your mind. You might even play volleyball before considering track and field.

I disagree that soccer takes away sprinters. In soccer, being super fast is not critical.

Of the Afro Brazilians who have excelled in soccer, none were fast. Pele, Romario, Garrincha, Cafu, etc etc

Interestingly if you look at the greatest soccer players of Jamaican descent, none were fast. John Barnes was a brilliant dribbler not fast neither was Sol Campbell, Raheem Sterling, Andy Cole etc

Again because pure footspeed is not critical in soccer

I don’t know which Raheem Sterling you’re watching, he is very fast for a soccer player.

It’s not a question of needing foot speed to excel in soccer, or that being fast makes you a better soccer player (although it demonstrably does, Ronaldo Nazario and Dani Alves are just two examples I can think of off the top of my head).

It is that if you are fast and have any technical ability, you are more likely to try soccer than sprinting. There are many 2nd and 3rd tier footballers who have excellent footspeed, and would probably have made genuine world class sprinters, but sprinting was never an option their mind.

It’s the same with NFL wide receivers, the best WRs are not necessarily the fastest ones, they are the ones who also have strength, speed, elite body control, hand-eye coordination, etc. but if you are fast, you will try out in the NFL regardless.

Look at this list of the 5 fastest footballers from 2020, two of them are Brazilians (neither of them are household names):

Trainwreck watcher

The Jamaicans are NOT dominant.

The men were only really dominant in 2012, but the women absolutely have been dominant.

Jamaicans have had a disproportionate representation in the medals for DECADES.

Donovan Bailey , Sanya Richards,

Linford Christie, Gabrielle Thomas,

Inger Miller , Diner Asher Smith, Ben Johnson, Jessica Ennis, Dwain Chambers, Zharnel Hughes, .............

Trainwreck watcher wrote:

[quote]Jetag wrote:

[quote]Trainwreck watcher

I don’t know which Raheem Sterling you’re watching, he is very fast for a soccer player.

. There are many 2nd and 3rd tier footballers who have excellent footspeed, and would probably have made genuine world class sprinters, but sprinting was never an option their mind.

If you are capable of sub 10, but are a 2nd or 3rd rate soccer player, it is unlikely you will choose soccer. Track is not dead in Brazil. Its the 4th most popular sport.

In the UK for example, soccer is as popular as it is in Brazil perhaps even more popular. But the UK consistently produces sprinter.

The UK has many sports that would take away sprinters: soccer, rugby league, rugby union, rugby sevens, cricket . And rugby is a sport where speed is critical.

Colin Jackson, the Welsh sprinter was a highly capable rugby player.

How is it that the UK with far fewer slave descendants produces far more sports produces sprinters and Brazil doesn't?

Its the Jamaican immigrants

There are less than a million Jamaicans in UK versus 50 million Brazilians of slave descent

Sham 69 wrote:

Jetag wrote:

Raheem Sterling,

Raheem is FAST AF

Not in the top 10 EPL players. See the link below. This thread is about those capable of track speed not soccer speed.

Also he strikes me as one of those who us quick over short bursts.

DanM wrote:

With a population of 1.38 Billion to draw from, why is India so bad ?

No money, overemphasis on school achievement when compared to sports, and probably other factors like cricket being the dominant sport there, et cetera et cetera. Go to a math or other academic competition, and you'll see a very high Indian/Indian-American population.

Trainwreck watcher wrote:

Sprintgeezer wrote:

Drugs are/were rampant, and the Jam’s were and still are protected by their national federation and the absolute highest levels in sport, in part to crush insufferable American cockiness. Drugs are just one form of cheating, the Jams do it at all levels, it starts in club when they lie about kids’ ages.

Come on Sprintgeezer. Jamaica may be relatively poor, but its birth registration is on par with any developed nation, and it’s even more difficult to get away with age-cheating in a country that small where everyone knows each other, you’re just making stuff up now. This isn’t Kenya we’re talking about.

Don't try to reason w/ that demented punk. He's got a lot of Canadian skeletons in his closet...

People keep over looking the tutelage of Stephen Francis. A bit abrasive in character, but his accomplishments speak for itself.

Olympic 100m-Gold

2008

SFP

2012

SFP

2016

ETH

2021

ETH

As noticed by past and current athletes, GH seems be common amongst the team. ETH removed her braces early summer and was wearing retainers while in Tokyo.

Run me down

Shoodilley-waddliley-diddley-diddley woh-oh-oh, swing

I'm broad, I'm broad

I'm broader than Broadway

Yes, I'm broad, I'm broad

I'm broader than Broadway

https://youtu.be/3epH_KNnwYE

Sham 69 wrote:

How is this even possible?

I honestly can't think why.

Trainwreck watcher wrote:

TrackCoach wrote:

There are some truths is what you said, but there are far to many abnormalities to rule out doping.

I’m not ruling out doping, but there’s no evidence to suggest that Jamaica has access to superior dope or doping protocols that no other nation has.

One might have assumed after the 2012 exposé of the resignation of their board and the ineptitude of their out-of-competition testing that their success would have slowed down, but the results in 2016 and now 2021 have been just as impressive.

re: "access to superior dope or doping protocols " That's not a requirement.

Doping requires access to dope, willing participants and a poor or compliant AD program.

NativeSon wrote:

Sham 69 wrote:

How is this even possible?

The Jamaicans are NOT dominant.

They have two great female athletes and one great male athlete who is retired!

Their next best thing, Yohan Blake couldn't even make the 100m final or even the 200m.

They are not dominant. The Americans are.

Now, English is NOT my first language. It i NOT even my second languge. May be I don't understand the meaning of 'dominant'.

Never understood why people persist in saying the Jamaicans are dominant. If you add up the DL and global championship medals from the last decade for sprints and sprint relays, Jamacia and the U.S. are about even. Btw, I am not event counting speed related disciplines like hurdles and the horizonal jumps. Also, consider this is by far Jamaica's greatest decade, when they had arguably 2-3 of the greatest sprinters in history compared to the U.S. not having a dominant sprinter the last decade. Jamaica might have a slight advantage if I actually counted, but using my memory, I would say there has been parity.

TrackCoach wrote:

Trainwreck watcher wrote:

I’m not ruling out doping, but there’s no evidence to suggest that Jamaica has access to superior dope or doping protocols that no other nation has.

One might have assumed after the 2012 exposé of the resignation of their board and the ineptitude of their out-of-competition testing that their success would have slowed down, but the results in 2016 and now 2021 have been just as impressive.

re: "access to superior dope or doping protocols " That's not a requirement.

Doping requires access to dope, willing participants and a poor or compliant AD program.

Every country has access to dope and willing participants, so your argument here rests solely on Jamaican anti-doping being poor or compliant.

As was pointed out in the post you quoted. You could make that argument in 2012. Unless WADA is in on the charade, all reports since 2013 indicate that JADCO is doing what a national anti-doping organisation is supposed to do.

So it’s either access to superior dope or doping protocols, or absolute corruption of their NADO. We don’t really have any evidence of any of these, all anybody ever says is that Jamaica is too poor and too small to dominate sprinting.

So yes, doping is a possibility, it always is when it comes to sprinting, but no more a possibility than superior talent and a dominant sports culture.

Jetag wrote:

Sham 69 wrote:

Raheem is FAST AF

Not in the top 10 EPL players. See the link below. This thread is about those capable of track speed not soccer speed.

Also he strikes me as one of those who us quick over short bursts.

https://www.sportbible.com/football/news-the-top-10-fastest-players-in-the-premier-league-revealed-20200727

Meh, I am much more impressed with tiny Norway's sprinters & runners. They actually have people who are at the top across a variety of fast running disciplines. Not just the 100 meters. They have Warholm, who is the record holder in 400H, Jakob who is the best from 1500-5000, and in soccer they have the most ridiculous fast player out there - Eric Haaland, who may turn out to be a legend. Here he is rated at #3 in the WORLD for fastest soccer players, and the kicker is he is a muscular 6'4"!! So basically a high speed freight train coming at you!

Genetically gifted Africans on steroids...

The Spade Detector wrote:

Sham 69 wrote:

How is this even possible?

I honestly can't think why.

https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1113878/jamaica-nesta-carter-doping

I love how he tries to “get out in front of it” by announcing his retirement and providing a rationale.

Carter was/is dirty as sin, his reaction to his Rieti 9.78 was the biggest giveaway.

Btw, NOR is the same, along with others like RSA.

Jamaica definitely have superior talent; they don't need dope to run fast...no more so than Americans, Trinadads, Bahamians or Brazilians for example. Having good genes helps but that is never the complete picture in athletics. The small nation of Taiwan is excellent at table tennis because it is what they covet, plain and simple. With that said, the thing that has always concerned me by about Jamaica starting in 2008 is the swiftness, the variety of athletes and the manner is which they became so good. And, as soon as there was a reliable test for a particular endogenous steroid, and Jamaica was forced into testing, there was a precipitous decline in the men. Yet, the women continued to preform well. The OOC steroid dosing requirements for women are so small that that you have to have a non partisan and very aggressive AD program to catch these women. If it was just a matter of genes, having a large talent pool and superior coaching, etc., there would be no reason to expect a nation would go 1-2-3 in the 100m dash and the men are shut out. Almost universally, when a nation is good at a sport, both the men and women are good. I saw this same pattern with the East Germans women of the 70s and 80s and the Chinese women of the 90s, where it was just the females who where good. I am certain WADA has done a statistical analysis and has seen the pattern, but it is not about what you know, but what you can prove and Jamaica absolutely no record of catching high profile athletes.

DanM wrote:

With a population of 1.38 Billion to draw from, why is India so bad ?

Because they don't have the myostatin deficiency disorder which causes an overgrowth of muscles. That's why. They aren't like Harry Aikines Areety.

Out of competition drug testing in Jamaica is a joke. It always has been. I’d love to see some data on when any of their athletes were tested out of competition in the off season. It’s basically non existent.

matt_london_413 wrote:

DanM wrote:

With a population of 1.38 Billion to draw from, why is India so bad ?

Because they don't have the myostatin deficiency disorder which causes an overgrowth of muscles. That's why. They aren't like Harry Aikines Areety.

Lol. Areety is the most doped up individual there is. Completely fake. The muscle on him is likely 60% air. Nothing he does matters.