F*!#KDf Unbelievable! Sifan Hassan going for the triple, falls on final lap, gets up, and still beats the entire field

Armstronglivs wrote:

Taro wrote:

And you have child pornography on your computer. I just know this.

You know it because you are speaking from experience?

Nah, because people who like to make unfounded accusations are always hypocrites.

Well if you are tired of it and want to discount that Lance did not test positive at the following eight Tours where he was doping to the gills, there have been hundreds of other top riders also never tested positive over a career of three weeks tours (Pantani, Indurain, Riis, Ulrich, etc) and countless runners who we know doped, such as Ma's army, that also never tested positive. The simple fact is that the dopers are almost never caught, especially when we are talking about EPO doping. I made this point when the US record was broken by the Burrito gang, that it was doping. Why? Because historically there is a legitimate threshold that clean runners can run and below that it is cheating. Period. Also historically there is a level of dominance that doped athletes show against their peers. Hasan fell down on the last lap and was able to catch and beat otherwise elite runners. I mean, please.

She's drug cheat. Her main competitors are drug cheats. You are the one who cannot deal with it.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

Wise Old Man wrote:

So is Hassan simply the best at doping of all time, or are they all are doping ands she is crushing them, so she is the GOAT? If it is the latter, I still am going to enjoy the show.

So if I show up on the track in my car run them all over and win is that ok! 2 wrongs don't make a right get your moral compass re-set

Aren't you tired of condemning athletes that have never tested positive? "Muhammad suspicious progression, Jacobs, suspicious progression, Hassan, clearly doped, on and on...."

The logic behind the better they run, the more they must have cheated, is nihilistic. Sit in the dark and pout all you want about the perceived crimes of the sport's greatest performers, I am going to enjoy Hassan and the rest for now. If they test positive, then I'll be sad for a moment and move on. What Hassan did over the last 12 hours should be enjoyed and celebrated. Seriously, for now, just stop watching and save yourself the misery.

You know asking that just how few athletes ever actually test positive.

zxcvczxv wrote:

The commentators were talking in the 5000m about how they couldn't let Hassan stay up with them as if she had by far the best closing speed of anyone because she's by far the best 1500m runner in the field. I was thinking, maybe. Obiri has outkicked many as good in the past. As it turned out, Obiri did not have much of a kick and Hassan wiped the field out, not even needing to really go until 200 left.

Obiri is a good runner, but the way she ran that 5,000 was never going to beat Hassan. Slower than her 10K pace, nothing to strain her until the final 400 meters. Obiri we'd be hard pressed to run under 4:00 whereas Hassan can run 3:53 on 5-10K training. Tsegay was more of the surprise to me. She definitely left her best running in the spring. No way she should've been out of the mix for silver and gold even with her relative inexperience.

Wise Old Man wrote:

ukathleticscoach wrote:

So if I show up on the track in my car run them all over and win is that ok! 2 wrongs don't make a right get your moral compass re-set

Aren't you tired of condemning athletes that have never tested positive? "Muhammad suspicious progression, Jacobs, suspicious progression, Hassan, clearly doped, on and on...."

The logic behind the better they run, the more they must have cheated, is nihilistic. Sit in the dark and pout all you want about the perceived crimes of the sport's greatest performers, I am going to enjoy Hassan and the rest for now. If they test positive, then I'll be sad for a moment and move on. What Hassan did over the last 12 hours should be enjoyed and celebrated. Seriously, for now, just stop watching and save yourself the misery.

It’s because this is Letsrun and just a bunch of haters on here.

They hate and call you a doper if you win. They hate and say your done and go home devistated if you lose.

Like I’ve stated before there is no in between.

And yet, the gold medalist Kiprop tested positive for EPO. I saw Hassan's race. It was a qualifier. It was not a final. The runners in front of her were not going all out. If you want to make the case, that race is not it. Furthermore, you state it like fact. You don't know and neither do I. To call her guilty with no proof is not something I do. I understand the thought process. But then, why do you watch? It makes no sense to watch something you know is dishonest.

Let me ask you this: When Hassan was running the 1500 only (before Salazar) and often losing, was she clean then? In other words, does poor performance remove the suspicion?

+1

Sad way to live life....

Wow. One whole person tested positive. :)

You know before you ask the question that there will be no proof because outside of a criminal investigation/confession it is a virtual impossibility that any of these top athletes will test positive. So you feign agnosticism. Meanwhile there was no proof that the East Germans had an industrial level state sponsored doping program until the wall came down. No proof of the widespread doping in cycling until the DOJ launched its vendetta against Armstrong and you had the occasional criminal investigation (Festina, Operacion Puerta, etc.). No proof that Jones was doping until Balco and the grand jury. Still no hard evidence regarding Flo Jo. No proof regarding Ma's Army. And on and on.

In every case the telltale signs were there and people were honest enough to admit it. But many others refused to admit it. And still refuse. Well then cling to denial.

Taro wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

You know it because you are speaking from experience?

Nah, because people who like to make unfounded accusations are always hypocrites.

The accusations are founded.

Wise Old Man wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

You are right - it is only a "show". Like WWE. But it isn't sport like you think it is.

Is Hassan more doped than Obiri or Kipyegon or Gidey? I ask you again, did she win today because she is better at doping or at running?

Better at doping. It has put her on another planet compared to the rest. She was never that exeptional earlier in her career and showed no signs she was going to attain this level. That is typical of dopers. Only a runner similarly doped to that extent stands a chance against her now.

OMG

Come on.

Are we going to do this again? The lance Armstrong "well if you don't believe in miraclessss" and "impossible is nothing" BS again?

We all know how our sport works. We know the pounding, the wear and tear, the expenditure, and the time needed for recovery. We know what tech is available to help with this and what is...cheating. Very few runners have attempted what she has. None have ever been this dominant. There is a reason for this. I can't believe I have to spell it out.

She's not racing novices. She's racing the best in the world. She took down Helen Obiri in the 5K. She's going to take down Faith in the 1500, and then she's going to be WR holder, Gidey in the 10K. And yes, women's sports are less developed than mens, I've heard. But Helen Obiri, Gidey and Kipyegon are no slouches. They are powerful athletes who are going to be more rested. She's going to beat them. I already know this. Her sprinting a casual 57 to win her heat of the 1500 and coming back to win the 5K proves she's on .... another level.

Have you noticed none of the above women are attempting what she's attempted? You think Gidey can't run a 15? You think Faith can't move up to the 10? You think Tirunesh couldn't have done it? They would wear out. They would get injured. They be zapped, gassed, and tired from the scorching heat. They wouldn't recover in time. How does Sifan recover from a fall and a 57 last lap to WIN her heat of the 1500 and then come back to take down Obiri in the 5K hours later? Have you seen Obiri kick???

She's worked with a banned coach and then cried at worlds about it. She claimed she's been competitive, but she's never been THIS competitive until a few years ago. How do you go from being one of the pack to being so ridiculously unbeatable? How do you train to be world dominating in every even from the 800 to the 10K when all your peers, men and women can't do the same, without getting injured, tired from all the rounds and running, or anything else.

I think Sifan is a joke and this stunt is making a mockery of the sport, the rules, and her world class competitors. It's a shame she's doing all of this so brazenly out in the open and not getting caught. I have no interest in her inevitable lionization by the public who doesn't know any better. I just hope that those who know the sport will have some common sense.

So she ran in the morning and fell. Here in the states it was evening. We all had dinner, went to sleep, gave the wife a pickle tickle, went to bed and woke up in the morning, perhaps a quickie before a nice breakfast...a new day.

And here she was, back on the track and it was still the same day for her.

bladerunner wrote:

zEthiopians wrote:

Lance Armstrong never tested positive either and he was one of the most tested

She is a dirty

Getting tired of this idiotic comparison. First, it's been disclosed by more than 1 reporter that Armstrong did have a positive test that was covered up. Moreover, Armstrong and his teammates often did blood transfusions, which is totally undetectable by any test. In a 3 week competition, blood transfusions make sense. They don't apply to middle distance and track runners.

It's funny, this board rallies around Houlihan, who had the most bizarre excuse for her positive test, and constantly condemns Hassan. She was a very fine runner before she came to Oregon. Then, she lost weight and Salazar made her stronger and extended her range. This is the female Bekele now and no one can deal with it.

Testing is window dressing. It hardly catches anyone. Only 1% of tests produce a positive and yet expert estimates of doping (WADA and IAAF surveys) range from 1 in 10 athletes to as high as 1 in 2 championship level athletes. Some sports, some countries, will be higher than others.

Every sport can benefit from doping and md running is no exception. As David Howman (former head of WADA) has said, the dopers continue to be ahead of the game.

For those who like to think Hassan is clean I would invite you to imagine what she could have done to that 5k field if she was doped. Lapped the leaders? Run sub-4 for the last 1600m? Swatting Obiri, Tsegay and co aside like they were schoolgirls must be a "clean" performance though - and especially after her extraordinary 1500 spectacle.

Armstronglivs wrote:

Wise Old Man wrote:

Is Hassan more doped than Obiri or Kipyegon or Gidey? I ask you again, did she win today because she is better at doping or at running?

Better at doping. It has put her on another planet compared to the rest. She was never that exeptional earlier in her career and showed no signs she was going to attain this level. That is typical of dopers. Only a runner similarly doped to that extent stands a chance against her now.

Care to elaborate on more of the details of the Hassan conspiracy? How is it that she is so much better at doping than Obiri?

If Hassan is doped, so any who beat her are doped too? Kipyegon, doped? Is Mu doped? Is Muhammad? Is Thompson-Herah? Can you please tell us after each T&F event who among the medalists are doped and who are not and who you feel should be on the podium after eliminating the cheaters from consideration. This would be helpful to me.

If she's clean , I bet Salazar really regrets being a doper coach now! One would think if his best athletes, and the rest of the best runners in the world were clean, he wouldn't have been a cheater in the first place.

ionion wrote:

Have you noticed none of the above women are attempting what she's attempted? You think Gidey can't run a 15? You think Faith can't move up to the 10? You think Tirunesh couldn't have done it? They would wear out. They would get injured. They be zapped, gassed, and tired from the scorching heat. They wouldn't recover in time. How does Sifan recover from a fall and a 57 last lap to WIN her heat of the 1500 and then come back to take down Obiri in the 5K hours later? Have you seen Obiri kick???

Faith if anything would do the 800 and she probably would have but Kenya's trials do not allow for that sort of double easily. No, I don't think she could move up to the 5,000 or 10,000 and make the Kenyan team in 1 or 2-day double. Sifan has a luxury that the Ethiopians don't. Gidey had to pick an event. She would obviously double if allowed to, same as Barega. Faith had to get very greedy at Trials to run both and opted for the safe move.

5,000/10,000 has been common for years. So the most unique part of this is the 1,500 in the mix. If she finishes a well-beaten bronze is your huge rant still gonna hold?

No, he is just a major fan of Goldeneye, and was hoping they would feature Sifan as the next iteration of Xenia Onatopp.

I don't quite see why Hassan should be far more suspicious than two dozens other world class runners, only because she has dominated for two seasons as 2020 there was no real season and 2018 she was also beaten several times in major DL races). She was a 1:58 3:56 runner and world bronze medalist before NOP. Supposedly she lacked discipline and didn't train all that much before joining NOP. With NOP she expanded to the longer distances but in 2017 and 2018 only improved little in the 1500m. 2019 was tremendous but just check who else ran huge PBs in the Doha final or the Stanford Pre. Or the Bowermans in their TTs. There have been plenty of tremendous improvements since 2019 (not even getting to road races) and very few of these runners were as good as Hassan in 2015-18 and there are all kinds of technical reasons that might be factors, like the supershoes, wavelight, maybe also legal or illegal substances.

Tsegay made as much progress in the 3k-10k in less than 6 months (February to June 2021) than Hassan made between 2016 and 2019... what does one make of that? And you get an Ethiopian or Kenyan teenager dropping about a minute PB in the 5k or 30-40 secs in the steeplechase from nowhere into world class times around 14:30-40 or 9:10s almost every year now. Without having the benefits of exNOP tech and science and lots of resources from NIKE.

Finally, as has been said, runners from other nations are often not allowed doubles/triples or have to contest hard trials before nomination. Hassan is the only world class Dutch runner and can do what she wants regardless of peaking for trials already.