Australia and New Zealand go into COVID lockdown and reinstate restrictions

The great experiment wrote:

Always amuses me when I see post on this forum exalting “freedom” from posters, one suspects, that do not hold a passport and live in a nation that doesn’t even crack the top 10 on the global freedom index.

https://www.cato.org/human-freedom-index/2020

Level 1, which is where the country has been for months, has no restrictions except at the borders. Level 4 is a full lockdown. The country experienced that only for 7 weeks, early last year, in order to eliminate community transmission - which was achieved. Level 2, which has only been imposed in the last week, still allows for gatherings of up to a hundred, and public socializing but with amped up testing, as a result of a single Australian visitor who tested positive on their return to Sydney. Level 2 is planned to be lifted on Sunday evening - if it is ensured there are no further cases in the community. In the meantime vaccination is underway for higher risk groups, as it has been in recent months. The economy goes on doing what it does, we enjoy normal life having a coffee with friends in public places, and without the need to socially distance or wear masks - or fearing catching the disease and having our health services overwhelmed. So life in the "hermit kingdom" seems far from onerous.

If New Zealand was to be judged by the same standards as the US it would have had several thousand deaths in its population of nearly 5 million. It has had 26. Apart from the temporary move in Wellington to level 2, New Zealand carries on life at level 1, with no restrictions.

ImpaIa31 wrote:

energeticlotuseater wrote:

The basic misunderstanding between you and I is that I value individual freedom over safety. You seem to value the opposite.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1237068

Australia deployed the military against its citizens in order to enforce a lockdown.

I would take the <1% risk of getting sick and that kind of tyranny any day. You, on the other hand, seem willing to accept that tyranny. There is no objectively right answer- it just depends on the kind of society one wants to live in.

Exactly. Well said.

I recall the January 6 insurrection. What was that you were saying about "tyranny"? I have been looking for it everywhere here but it seems very difficult to find.

Armstronglivs wrote:

ImpaIa31 wrote:

Exactly. Well said.

I recall the January 6 insurrection. What was that you were saying about "tyranny"? I have been looking for it everywhere here but it seems very difficult to find.

I wasn't saying anything because I am not American and I don't care about American politics.

Keep looking everywhere. Your dementia is showing.

energeticlotuseater wrote:

Australia deployed the military against its citizens in order to enforce a lockdown.

I would take the <1% risk of getting sick and that kind of tyranny any day. You, on the other hand, seem willing to accept that tyranny. There is no objectively right answer- it just depends on the kind of society one wants to live in.

Less than 2 pages and I cannot actually choose which is the worst reporting, so these are the facts from Sydney, Australia.

A limo driver (employed by airlines), transporting crew to quarrantine hotels and back did not follow simple protocol and got infected by a crew member (likely source as they have quick turnaround), with the Delta variant, two weeks ago.

All of the current infections , bar one child, is directly genomically and by contact tracing , linked to that patient zero, one of those flew to Wellington , NZ last weekend. (we have travel bubble with them)

The NSW premier is very measured in responses, and has not locked down the state. Only as of last night, four (4) Local Govt. Areas (councils) have had restrictions imposed. These people can still do a range of close activities (shops, exercise etc) and go to work if they cannot work from home.

Other states have imposed various levels of travel restrictions on us, in some cases no one from NSW can enter, or in Queensland/Victoria case only those from certain areas.

The 'military', or more accurately Army Reservists are usually called up for a range of logistical problems, be it help clearing/managing roads, building temporary accomodation etc during bushfires/storm/flood damage etc, and helping traffic check at borders is no different. Fortunately we live in a safe country where we are not scared seeing police or military at checkpoints, usually it is a "G'day mate, where you off to...have a good day " etc.

Next weekend Queensland has a music festival of up to 10,000 people attending in the Simpson Desert (Birdsville). Most Sydneysiders were still able to go as of Thursday , except those in rerstricted local areas, and the rest of NSW are free to attend. Can you imagine the outbreak if this was not managed?

We do not want the delta (nor any other) variant, and this will be under control in a week.

We are able to contact, track and trace and isolate individuals prior to +ve test because we are on top of the low numbers. Other countries lost that battle ages ago, and now pretend they are 'Covid free'...you aren't, you killed another 379 people yesterday, infected another 15,000 many of who will have ongoing health issues.

Countries like Australia/NZ (don't even mention the 3rd world) have not been able to get enough supply of mRNA, because others like Canada have had orders to supply 4 times the population. We have local manufacture of 1M per week Astra Zeneca, but because of the clotting side effect, we have restricted use to 60yrs plus only. So our roll out is reliant on Pfizer and we are progressing towards late 2021 completion . (I have had both).

When you have 1,000's of deaths from Covid, then obviously the clotting is a lower risk, but when you don't have any deaths then two deaths from AZ vaccine is unacceptable, if not criminal.

So seeing that you guys are concerned about us, how has it affected our lifestyle?

Well, I go to work as usual, visit and work at customer sites. I went to run with my running group on Thursday. I have attended/worked at 5 running events in the past three months. Our rugby stadiums (to last week) has been full capacity. We are having a huge interstate game tomorrow night in Brisbane with full capacity. The music festival is going ahead

etc etc, seems pretty normal under ciurcumstances.

What is the economic cost?

Our unemployment is lower than what it was prior to Covid.

Our GDP is growing, and we only had one quarter of -ve growth last year at height of Covid

Interest rates and inflation are at record lows

I personally earned more in the last year than ever before (we got bonuses).

I'd rather you guys keep your Covid and Covid deaths over there please.

Thank you

I will note a further positive to what you mentioned in that many companies were urging staff to return to their Sydney CBD offices but this will put the brakes on that, so the WFH dream continues

The Delta variant is absolutely a beast, aka the 5 second variant. CCTV has shown extremely fleeting contact is enough. A shopper passing patient zero in a department store was enough.

A secondary infected person went to a birthday party, so far 20 out of the 30 present are positive.

You may think, hey 15,000 a day, not so bad (1,000 in Australian equivalent population), the fact is that the variants get more infectious and worse outcomes, because hardest to wipe out are obviously the most prolific

Note also that this particular delta infection came from US airline crew, so maybe US should be listed as 'no travel', freight only , no disembarking.

New Zealand is beautiful on paper.

Precious Roy wrote:

NZ deaths per mil: 5

Australia deaths per mil: 35

US deaths per mil: 1,859

NZ and Australia have been behind other nations on vaccination because they are small countries that do not have the purchasing power of the US or UK. More people live in Georgia than live in NZ and Australia combined. So, they have been several months behind other nations.

Why are you just making up crap? Australia has over 26 million people and Georgia less than 11 million. Or are you talking about Georgia the country, with less than 4 million?

Thank you for taking that time to post this.

I didn’t know where to start! Don’t have to worry now, and can go back to playing with the grand kids on the beach on holidays.

PS do we tell them our military don’t even carry guns in public ….

Think About It wrote:

Thank you for taking that time to post this.

I didn’t know where to start! Don’t have to worry now, and can go back to playing with the grand kids on the beach on holidays.

PS do we tell them our military don’t even carry guns in public ….

Good grief, no...I think we are just aboiut getting them to realise New Zealand is not in Australia...I think we did anyway.

My son in law is in Army Reserve, the only time he plays with guns is in training camps, but he is getting awesome logistical experience and some peace keeping stuff...

...and he gets to get pissed in uniform in public on Anzac Day ...gotta love this place.

As an Australian I have to say Australian response other than preventing some age care deaths who are already dead anyways is absolutely apalling

We have only 2 % fully vaccinated and vaccine acceptance is low

50% vacination rate won't be achieved for likely another year if ever as lockdown happen when 2-3 cases happen so nobody sees any reason to get vaccinated

Federal government bet everything on Astrazaneca - low effeciency blood clotting vaccine

and now when they pivoted to pfizer they have problem to get supply on short notice

Rolling lockdowns almost nonstop somewhere, And lockdowns are harsh with curfrew and 5 km from home

you can't go anywhere for vacation because when lockdown starts and you're visiting this place you can be locked out of your home without any help

Everyone except government officials and holywood stars banned from leaving the country indefinetely.

If you have dying relative or some other family crisis - bad luck you're imprisoned

ImpaIa31 wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

I recall the January 6 insurrection. What was that you were saying about "tyranny"? I have been looking for it everywhere here but it seems very difficult to find.

I wasn't saying anything because I am not American and I don't care about American politics.

Keep looking everywhere. Your dementia is showing.

So where is the "tyranny" in New Zealand (he says, supping his flat-white in a public cafe, without restrictions of any kind)?

Thank you I am Sam for giving us some facts.

Most of Australia spent most of covid living pretty normally, other than no overseas travel. We know that when you get the odd positive, you need to stamp it out or it will spread out of control very quickly.

Also, Europe blocked a lot of the Pfizer vaccines from coming here for a while. We are getting a bunch more in a few months. Astra is made in Australia but due to clotting issues is only recommended for over 60s. Our vaccination rates will increase dramatically between now and the end of the year.

We will accept short hard localised lockdowns to get it back to low numbers (which for us is 1-2 per day). We’ll accept it for the greater good, because when you come out the other side life will be back to normal. Those in countries fighting against restrictions and complaining about tyranny would be called socially irresponsible over here.

The lack of desperation for the vaccine is partly because our numbers are so low it’s not as urgent.

As of one hour ago all of Sydney and surrounding areas are into lockdown for 2 weeks. That means you can only leave home for 4 reasons. 1. Work that can’t be done from home 2. Medical reasons including testing and vaccination 3. Buying essentials (including alcohol…) 4. Exercising outdoors in groups not exceeding 10.

Coincidentally my sons left Sydney on Wednesday - just in time - for a 9-day training camp in north qld.

The rest of Australia is normal, including Brisbane which as one person said will host 60,000 for a massive football game tomorrow, with no COVID issues. And the Premier of NSW has, compared to other premiers, been measured in her responses and taken into account financial health as well.

energeticlotuseater wrote:

trollism wrote:

I might have issues with the thread, but they're hardly irrational.

Someone who says a country with barely any COVID and 4 deaths in a whole year is doing badly compared to the disaster we've seen elsewhere. That's irrational thinking.

My view that NZ and Aus have been very successful is completely rational, if you're intelligent enough to interpret basic statistics. (Or in this case, not hysterically describe a couple of minor restrictions as FULL LOCKDOWN AMAGAD!!!!!)

The basic misunderstanding between you and I is that I value individual freedom over safety. You seem to value the opposite.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1237068

Australia deployed the military against its citizens in order to enforce a lockdown.

You realise this is factually wrong, right?

Karma Police wrote:

Most of Australia spent most of covid living pretty normally, other than no overseas travel. We know that when you get the odd positive, you need to stamp it out or it will spread out of control very quickly.

We will accept short hard localised lockdowns to get it back to low numbers (which for us is 1-2 per day). We’ll accept it for the greater good, because when you come out the other side life will be back to normal. Those in countries fighting against restrictions and complaining about tyranny would be called socially irresponsible over here.

The lack of desperation for the vaccine is partly because our numbers are so low it’s not as urgent.

I'm totally nuasated from attitudes like this. Quite a lot of people just packing and say Adios to Australia and its lockdowns

People in Victoria were subjected to the harshest and longest lockdown in the world

Anyone who can planning to escape this failed state as mob in power will continue trturing

There is nothing "great" and nothing "good" in Australian response and nothing normal

Large part of the the population totally brainwashed into the idea that if they catch covid they will 100% die and that covid can be elminated so they support non stop lockdowns for "greater good"

instead of taking government accounted for failed vaccination they are happy to waste their lives in lockdowns

Trying to make sense of what you wrote.

No one thinks what you said.

Yes Victoria was tough. But that’s not what’s happening now. Funnily enough I ran into a couple in Sydney last year - one Aussie one from USA- and they could not wait to get to Australia. Did the 2 week quarantine. Finished it and so happy to be loving freely.

Victoria aside, the lockdowns are rare and short. Hence it being news now.