If you are vaccinated, why do you care that I am not?

The Unkle wrote:

Yawn^7 wrote:

Again, you put words in my mouth. I never said the vaccine is a higher risk. If you cannot read properly don’t bother responding.

Pretty sure the risk of serious damage to people under age 30 is higher from the vaccine than the virus

You aren't very smart.

Didn’t the tax payers just send millions of doses to other countries?

2600 bro wrote:

Yawn^7 wrote:

You don’t have that long term data so everything you are saying is just a lie at this point.

18-20 months of COVID data

12-14 months of vaccine data

When are we allowed to start drawing conclusions? I assume you'll just say "a bit longer" as long as the evidence still tilts in favor of vaccination... so... forever?

We don't have 12-14 months of vaccine data. Where are you getting that number? We have 12 subjects who have had the vaccine for 12 months. I do not consider 12 people to be an adequate database.

Phase II of the Pfizer vaccine completed 12 months ago and included 12 subjects getting the current 2-shot protocol of 0.3ml. Twelve more got two doses of 0.1ml and 12 got one dose of 1ml.

In December 2020, Pfizer completed Phase III so in December 2021, someone will have data on 18,650 subjects who got both shots. I say "someone" because Pfizer isn't reporting the status of those 18,650 subjects. This *might* be enough, but we don't know the ongoing status of these 18,650 subjects. Pfizer isn't providing updates. In fact, they have opened the control group so those in the control can get the vaccine. Effectively, this terminates the clinical trial since there is no longer a control group.

The good news is that by April 2022, we'll have a database of over 100 million test subjects who have had the vaccine for one year. Unless I'm forced to take the vaccine, that would be the earliest I would consider voluntarily taking it. To be clear, I doubt if I would take the vaccine then.

Maybe the vaccine is safe in the long term. I've looked at the data and decided to wait and see what the long-term effects are versus taking the word of our health experts. I wouldn't buy a used car from these folks and I frankly don't trust them.

we don’t care about ONE of you but A LOT of you means the world will not open up to become normal again. so you and your other lunatic friends will be the reason bar and restaurant owners will continue to struggle etc.

i’m sure you don’t understand this point because STOPID

Exactly. There is essentially zero long term data. But they keep pushing the narrative that the vaccine has been proven to be good

Florida says hello

Yawn^7 wrote:

Exactly. There is essentially zero long term data. But they keep pushing the narrative that the vaccine has been proven to be good

Yes... we know you do not consider any data long term. You don't contribute anything here anymore. Nothing will change your mind :)

We can disagree on the strength of the existing data. But this seems like a stupid waiting game.

I do not understand the calculus of risking COVID infection vs taking the vaccine.

There are well quantified risks of long term effects from COVID infection - especially for middle-aged and older. We haven't seen anything approaching those risks from vaccination, whether in RCTs or observation studies of hundreds of millions of people.

Skepticism is allowed but at some point one must acknowledge it's baseless fear-of-the-unknown.

Also come on...

The Moderna Ph III with 30k people is over a year from listing (6/14/20) as well. I think it's very fair to say we have a large population with long term data. If you are upset about losing the control group... at least we have massive observation data!

2600 bro wrote:

Also come on...

The Moderna Ph III with 30k people is over a year from listing (6/14/20) as well. I think it's very fair to say we have a large population with long term data. If you are upset about losing the control group... at least we have massive observation data!

It's okay to have your own opinion, but there are people here reading this and thinking your data is correct. Let's look at the actual Moderna Phase III trial data.

A NEJM article (link below) states that "participants received the first trial injection between July 27 and October 23, 2020." .... "The trial enrolled 30,420 volunteers who were randomly assigned in a 1:1 ratio to receive either vaccine or placebo (15,210 participants in each group)"

So the earliest anyone in Phase 3 could have gotten the 2nd dose would have been August 2020. Moderna's Phase II clinical trial had three groups of 15 at various doses and finished in July 2020.

So again, we have only 3x15 =45 subjects who have had the Moderna vaccine for more than one year. That's not enough people or a long enough period to determine long-term effects.

Don't get me wrong. I think COVID is a very serious disease and I continue to take precautions. I take 7,000- 20,000 IU of vitamin D every day. I'm not around people on a daily basis and I avoid crowded indoor venues. Over the past week, I've been within 6 feet of another person for more than 5 minutes maybe 5 times. My county of 600,000 population has averaged 4 cases of COVID per day recently. After weighing the pros and cons, I continue to believe that a wait-and-see approach is best for me. And, I don't think one year of data is enough for the mRNA vaccines anyway. I'd prefer to see at least two years of data and it would have to be compelling in terms of safety.

tl;dr

We lack any meaningful long-term (defined as one year) data on the safety of the vaccine.

You no longer amuse me with your 5th grade reading level and 1st grade trolling. Stated multiple times what type of data is need to see.

Back to the herd for you sheep.

People just need to leave each other alone and stop trying to control each other.

If you want to take the vaccine go ahead. If you don’t then don’t.

If you want to wear three masks at all times, please do. If you want to join kissing parties with strangers, be my guest.

If you want to avoid large groups it’ll probably be pretty easy to do so with the technology we have. If you want to hang out in large groups those options are present as well.

This whole COVID hysteria has 1) showed how easily people are manipulated by the media and politicians and 2) shows how desperate many are to exercise power over one another.

The Unkle wrote:

I don't get it.

You think the vaccines work and you are vaccinated.

What threat am I to you?

short answer: you and other people who forego the vaccine are the only reason the remaining restrictions, sickness and death are still continuing in this country. Your 'personal decision' means that we are ALL subject to the problems and restrictions attendant with the continuation of a pandemic that could be tamped down nationally if everyone got vaccinated.

how about a delightful vacation to India or Brazil, where you can mingle with all kinds of non vaccinated people and dabble in a little Delta variant? Perhaps we should have you switch places with someone from a country with little access to vaccines, I'm sure they'd be all for it.

Well all those countries are more then welcome to get their act together and join the first world. Nobody is stopping them.

Yawn^7 wrote:

Well all those countries are more then welcome to get their act together and join the first world. Nobody is stopping them.

what do we have control over? Our own national vaccination supply and adherence rates. What do we have almost no control over? Other country's vaccination supply and adherence rates. Of course, we could do more to help out with the global vaccination supply.

My point, however, is that if the thing that is most in our control is to GET THE DAMN VACCINE if it's available, then if some of us forego that as a petty political act then those people not only prolonging COVID restrictions but also sickness and death.

stopid wrote:

we don’t care about ONE of you but A LOT of you means the world will not open up to become normal again. so you and your other lunatic friends will be the reason bar and restaurant owners will continue to struggle etc.

i’m sure you don’t understand this point because STOPID

It ain't me enforcing these damned lockdowns.

It's the establishment.

injured wrote:

The Unkle wrote:

I don't get it.

You think the vaccines work and you are vaccinated.

What threat am I to you?

short answer: you and other people who forego the vaccine are the only reason the remaining restrictions, sickness and death are still continuing in this country. Your 'personal decision' means that we are ALL subject to the problems and restrictions attendant with the continuation of a pandemic that could be tamped down nationally if everyone got vaccinated.

+1

Yawn^7 wrote:

Exactly. There is essentially zero long term data. But they keep pushing the narrative that the vaccine has been proven to be good

This vaccine has gone through the exact same process and review as every other vaccine that most people don't think twice about