responder wrote:
Alexi Q. Santana wrote:
Please divide 590,000 into the number of Americans who contracted COVID. Thank you.
LOL, that number is so wrong. Anyone who had Covid at the time of death was marked as a Covid death. People dying of car accidents, cancer, etc - all categorized as Covid.
People conveniently ignore this fact. Covid is not deadly enough to warrant restrictions.
I know.
There were only 2600 cases in the entire US since it started over a year ago.
xczvzxcv wrote:
joed|rt wrote:
Population growth and life expectancy were pretty much unaffected in the US last year. So I would say yes.
You're kidding right? Last year saw the biggest decline in population growth since 1920.
That was referring to the decade from 2010-2020, not 2020 alone.
Harambe wrote:
500k excess deaths. One could argue the mitigation efforts were not perfect, but they definitely were not the biggest overreaction in history.
The hysteria from the COVID denier-fearmongers already a bigger overreaction!
Are there not other things that kill people? About half of the country has been opened up for quite a while now. And we're talking 580k deaths or whatever it is on over a year. At this point we've been under 800 deaths per day for a month, which would be 292k deaths in a year. So this thing is still dragging on, we'll likely have some sort of restrictions through the fall and nearly two years in and be at 800k total deaths in about two years in a country with 330 MILLION people. Are there not other things that kill a few hundred thousand people per year? We don't bat an eye at tons of things that kill 30k-80k per year, yet we completely go crazy for something that did 500k in a year and still have 25% of the population freaking out while we're on pace for under 300k in a year. It's time to move on. I thought we were 'slowing the curve' anyway. This is an extremely long curve. If we're not prepared for the virus now then we never will. And it's never going away.
Are there not other things that kill people? wrote:
Harambe wrote:
500k excess deaths. One could argue the mitigation efforts were not perfect, but they definitely were not the biggest overreaction in history.
The hysteria from the COVID denier-fearmongers already a bigger overreaction!
Are there not other things that kill people? About half of the country has been opened up for quite a while now. And we're talking 580k deaths or whatever it is on over a year. At this point we've been under 800 deaths per day for a month, which would be 292k deaths in a year. So this thing is still dragging on, we'll likely have some sort of restrictions through the fall and nearly two years in and be at 800k total deaths in about two years in a country with 330 MILLION people. Are there not other things that kill a few hundred thousand people per year? We don't bat an eye at tons of things that kill 30k-80k per year, yet we completely go crazy for something that did 500k in a year and still have 25% of the population freaking out while we're on pace for under 300k in a year. It's time to move on. I thought we were 'slowing the curve' anyway. This is an extremely long curve. If we're not prepared for the virus now then we never will. And it's never going away.
Yes, the vaccines have markedly slowed the death rate. Most states have lifted most restrictions.
What’s your problem?
responder wrote:
Absolutely yes.
The lockdowns, loss of jobs, suicides, mental health issues, kids missing out on education, families being torn apart. Not worth it for a virus with a 99.5% recovery rate.
I'd like to see your math on that one...
BigYawn wrote:
responder wrote:
LOL, that number is so wrong. Anyone who had Covid at the time of death was marked as a Covid death. People dying of car accidents, cancer, etc - all categorized as Covid.
People conveniently ignore this fact. Covid is not deadly enough to warrant restrictions.
So you have direct knowledge of what...thousands of cases of medicare fraud? tens of thousands of cases? half a million cases?
The war on terror?
Both are planned "over-reactions".
2600 bro wrote:
Are there not other things that kill people? wrote:
Are there not other things that kill people? About half of the country has been opened up for quite a while now. And we're talking 580k deaths or whatever it is on over a year. At this point we've been under 800 deaths per day for a month, which would be 292k deaths in a year. So this thing is still dragging on, we'll likely have some sort of restrictions through the fall and nearly two years in and be at 800k total deaths in about two years in a country with 330 MILLION people. Are there not other things that kill a few hundred thousand people per year? We don't bat an eye at tons of things that kill 30k-80k per year, yet we completely go crazy for something that did 500k in a year and still have 25% of the population freaking out while we're on pace for under 300k in a year. It's time to move on. I thought we were 'slowing the curve' anyway. This is an extremely long curve. If we're not prepared for the virus now then we never will. And it's never going away.
Yes, the vaccines have markedly slowed the death rate. Most states have lifted most restrictions.
What’s your problem?
This is true. How do we get all states to lift all restrictions immediately? Why to some states still not have their schools open? Why are people clinging to ineffective mitigation strategies after we already have the best one (vaccines for those who need them) out in full force?
Lead Foil Hat wrote:
2600 bro wrote:
Yes, the vaccines have markedly slowed the death rate. Most states have lifted most restrictions.
What’s your problem?
This is true. How do we get all states to lift all restrictions immediately? Why to some states still not have their schools open? Why are people clinging to ineffective mitigation strategies after we already have the best one (vaccines for those who need them) out in full force?
Why did people fail to adopt useful mitigation strategies when the pandemic started.
"Why aren't people executing things perfectly" isn't really an interesting conversation.
School closures was a policy failure - it made sense in march when there were lots of unknowns, but the fact things stayed closed in the fall was a topdown failure from the federal and state governments. Plenty of private schools figured out strategies to reopen as early as August with minimal caseload.
The reason we still need some mitigation is because 1) vaccine distrubution and immunity take time 2) a significant portion of the population refuses to get vaccinated. It's not responsible to subject the healthcare system to a surge of cases simply because people are stupid.
BigYawn wrote:
responder wrote:
LOL, that number is so wrong. Anyone who had Covid at the time of death was marked as a Covid death. People dying of car accidents, cancer, etc - all categorized as Covid.
People conveniently ignore this fact. Covid is not deadly enough to warrant restrictions.
This is wrong. COVID deaths track excess deaths at the state level in time and space. There is not other explanation besides the boring one: COVID deaths are real and there are lots of them
Harambe wrote:
BigYawn wrote:
People conveniently ignore this fact. Covid is not deadly enough to warrant restrictions.
This is wrong. COVID deaths track excess deaths at the state level in time and space. There is not other explanation besides the boring one: COVID deaths are real and there are lots of them
And the few places that managed to avoid mass COVID infections through aggressive restrictions had... no excess deaths.
You can lead a horse to water....
Lead Foil Hat wrote:
Harambe wrote:
The denier-fearmonger tactic is now to exaggerate insane hypotheticals to support their hysteria.
They have taken this farther than the "2 million dead" predictions at the start of the pandemic (which weren't that crazy it turns out!).
They became what they sought to destroy. Ironic.
What insane hypotheticals? I am curious? You are the only one still demanding that all of these efforts were successful and pushing the vaccines at every corner, all based on hypotheticals and not reality. Everyone else is just saying enough, we were doing much before with the mitigation other than ruining peoples lives, and we need to stop and go back to normal. If the "hypothetical" in your mind of "let's get back to normal and everything will be fine" is insane then I think you mine just have to look into the mirror for the definition of insane.
Masks are harmful.
The vaccines are going to kill millions despite basically 0 toxicity so far.
The risk of vaccines is more than the risk of a COVID infection.
Vaccination increases the likelihood of COVID variants arising.
Deaths are faked. Cases are faked.
We were at herd immunity in April, wait June, wait November, wait April again!!
2600 bro wrote:
Lead Foil Hat wrote:
This is true. How do we get all states to lift all restrictions immediately? Why to some states still not have their schools open? Why are people clinging to ineffective mitigation strategies after we already have the best one (vaccines for those who need them) out in full force?
Why did people fail to adopt useful mitigation strategies when the pandemic started.
"Why aren't people executing things perfectly" isn't really an interesting conversation.
School closures was a policy failure - it made sense in march when there were lots of unknowns, but the fact things stayed closed in the fall was a topdown failure from the federal and state governments. Plenty of private schools figured out strategies to reopen as early as August with minimal caseload.
The reason we still need some mitigation is because 1) vaccine distrubution and immunity take time 2) a significant portion of the population refuses to get vaccinated. It's not responsible to subject the healthcare system to a surge of cases simply because people are stupid.
I'll agree with your opinion on schools, but not on keeping any restrictions. I don't think we ever needed them and do not now; I don't think they ever did or will now make a difference. We just need to get those who need the vaccine (those susceptible to severe infection) the vaccine if they do not have it already. Nature will deal with the rest. I also think the variant argument is a week one and that natural development of variants is likely even better than a selective one via mass vaccination. Despite, the vaccines so far seem to be effective against variants.
Lead Foil Hat wrote:
2600 bro wrote:
Why did people fail to adopt useful mitigation strategies when the pandemic started.
"Why aren't people executing things perfectly" isn't really an interesting conversation.
School closures was a policy failure - it made sense in march when there were lots of unknowns, but the fact things stayed closed in the fall was a topdown failure from the federal and state governments. Plenty of private schools figured out strategies to reopen as early as August with minimal caseload.
The reason we still need some mitigation is because 1) vaccine distrubution and immunity take time 2) a significant portion of the population refuses to get vaccinated. It's not responsible to subject the healthcare system to a surge of cases simply because people are stupid.
I'll agree with your opinion on schools, but not on keeping any restrictions. I don't think we ever needed them and do not now; I don't think they ever did or will now make a difference. We just need to get those who need the vaccine (those susceptible to severe infection) the vaccine if they do not have it already. Nature will deal with the rest. I also think the variant argument is a week one and that natural development of variants is likely even better than a selective one via mass vaccination. Despite, the vaccines so far seem to be effective against variants.
If there were a way to reqlinquish the healthcare system from the responsilbity of treating COVID patients who refused vaccination despite eligibility then maybe we could reach a compromise.
gonna go with yes because it was global. But humans are known to get hysterical and overreact to things en masse, all throughout history.
surbeying says wrote:
Yes
In US history it has to at least rank up there.
I would’ve said the First Red Scare after WWI was the biggest overreaction until COVID came along and blew it out of the water.
energeticlotuseater wrote:
surbeying says wrote:
Yes
In US history it has to at least rank up there.
I would’ve said the First Red Scare after WWI was the biggest overreaction until COVID came along and blew it out of the water.
Oh yes, and the “War on Terror” is up there on American overreactions but COVID still has to take the top spot.
Vietnam and Iraq wars have to be up there?
War of 1812?
2600 bro wrote:
Vietnam and Iraq wars have to be up there?
War of 1812?
All up there but COVID still takes the top spot and the various COVID mandates were bigger policy blunders than all mentioned events.