AsAnd wrote:.. and ironic in it's acknowledgement of ignorance.
"in it is acknowledgement"?
AsAnd wrote:.. and ironic in it's acknowledgement of ignorance.
"in it is acknowledgement"?
kipudgy wrote:
any truth here wrote:
No, Tinman f***ed over the athletes. They've been hurt constantly and they've run like sh*t. He got fired for poor performance. The athletes didn't owe him a damn thing.
Tinman's entire career is built on the back of Drew Hunter's success and nothing else. Tinman should forever be thankful for Drew Hunter.
That’s where you’re wrong. Twas the students, not the teacher. Hopefully he sues those phucks for all the cash they’ve made profiting from his name and training.
I think this whole setup was rotten from the start. Not Tinman's fault, he was just doing what was asked of him. In the beginning, why did Drew live in Boulder when his coach was in Idaho? Why did Drew try and form this rag-tag training group full of D2 scrubs? Why didn't the coach have more control over his workouts, races, nutrition, etc? This is not a professional set-up.
Adidas really dropped the ball here. They let a teenager and his parents essentially dictate the terms of his professional training for the next decade. What a joke. Contrast this with a group like BTC with a coach who's in total control of workouts, mileage, camps, races, etc. And the training group actually makes sense!
What a farce.
What a great post by Mrs. Tinman. Sounds like the entire operation was "run" by Drew from the beginning. As many suspected, this furthers the narrative that he needs to go to a professional team and just let himself be coached and run workouts with similarly talented athletes.
Naa! He just needs a real good coach!
Thanks for sharing so many details, Tammy. I remain a Tom Schwartz fan. Go Rheinhardt!
kipudgy wrote:
any truth here wrote:
No, Tinman f***ed over the athletes. They've been hurt constantly and they've run like sh*t. He got fired for poor performance. The athletes didn't owe him a damn thing.
Tinman's entire career is built on the back of Drew Hunter's success and nothing else. Tinman should forever be thankful for Drew Hunter.
That’s where you’re wrong. Twas the students, not the teacher. Hopefully he sues those phucks for all the cash they’ve made profiting from his name and training.
from what i have gathered is that tinman isnt the kind of low life douche who would sue or go cry "wow is me" on the social media. obviously it hit him hard enough that his wife had to come say something, and im sure he appreciates her concern but im sure he would have rather kept silent.
the fools will have their own undoing, especially whenever they have to answer for it. its going to sound shallow, immature, and childish...good luck getting a sponsorship
Almost stopped reading on the 8th page of the thread but now glad I didn't!! "Super hot on Letsrun" indeed
bannnned i got wrote:
highhoppingworm wrote:
Honest question...
Why do we spend so much time talking about a dude who has run 1:48 to 13:17. He a lower tier national class athlete in this day and age. I understand all the marketing has created a stir and what not but there is literally nothing to validate continued interest in this $hit show of drama.
honest question....why is a 20 min 5k tool think his opinion on this matters.
wait let me guess
you ran at a mid major d1 school, you ran 14 flat 5k, graduated with honors in a STEM program and got accepted into a top tier ivy league, you make $250k a year and your wife is one of the top super models.
Not sure where the rage is coming from. You almost seem personally invested which is a bit odd (unless...)
Also not sure why my 5k time would be relevant to this but it’s faster than 20 mins, didn’t start running the 5k until my mid 30s so no college, I am gainfully employed and do think my wife is hot.
The point stands that this is an awful lot of drama and attention on some fledgling sub elite runners making (based on this thread) almost comically immature, unprofessional and most likely self destructive decisions.
This is the most lit post I've ever seen on LetsRun and makes me happy that the branding and 'trendy' videos had nothing to do with the Coach, whom I ultimately respect.
RunnerConnection wrote:
Wow, there are a lot of folks on here speculating this or that about this entire situation with Coach Tinman, Tinman Elite and Drew. Here are the facts because I feel this needs to be shared to stop all the BS comments on this thread. Time to rock-n-roll!
Fact: Coach Tinman did not leave Tinman Elite. He was told over the phone that his services were no longer needed. The team voted by the raise of a hand "yes" or "no". He was told that the team voted unanimously "no we don't want his coaching services". Not every athlete on the team really agreed to this, but they had no choice because it was not an anonymous voting system. The guys that wanted to stay with Coach Tinman had no choice, but to agree, because they would not have the financial backing to continue their running career. Ya, what a shame! Here is the dinger, they never gave Coach Tinman a reason for letting him go. Even Drew never told his Coach. How unprofessional on their part...pretty sad.
Fact: I have a hunch that the Tinman guys didn't like their Head Coach giving them friendly reminders in their team meetings to quit the F- bombing posts and inappropriate gestures on their social media. Any Head Coach for any team wants their team to display a good image to the public...especially a semi-pro team that is popular with today's youth. You certainly don't see other professional running teams doing this. But no Tinman Elite runners think its cool, hip, to flip the bird and use profanity on your social medial posts. As a parent I wouldn't want my kid to follow Tinman Elite just for that one reason.
Fact: Coach Tinman never had a contract with Adidas!
Fact: Coach Tinman has nothing to do with the Hammer & Axe training plans or $$ gained from them. They are cookie cutter plans derived from what they have learned from Tinman. Do you really think these guys have the credentials to Coach your middle school kids or high school kids. Heck no! Tinman has credentials and proven experience with results. PhD in Health & Human Performance/Exercise Science, USATF Level 3 in: Youth Specialization and Endurance Coaching, plus Level 5 IAAF Elite Endurance Certification and former collegiate coaching. None of the Tinman Elite runners have any experience coaching, nor credentials. They are using a dummied down version of Coach Tinman's training just to make $. They were told to not use Coach Tinman's training methods for their personal gains financially.
Fact: Coach Tinman coached most of the Tinman guys for free for one year before being asked to relocate to Colorado and be the Head Coach for Tinman Elite. He was paid a small monthly salary of a couple thousand, compared to what other Head Coaches make, which is $75k to $300K or more. Yes, I agree he should of had a formal contract before making the move from Idaho to Colorado.
Fact: Drew paid his Coach for a very small salary (a beginners teacher salary) and they did have a good relationship, until a certain individual got involved. Jealousy might be the evil doer behind all this.
Fact: Drew has a big heart and helped finance several of the Tinman Elite guys to help this club get started. Coach Tinman gave up a lot financially to help in the cause too. Unselfish acts by both.
Fact: Coach Tinman has not received one penny for all the Tinman merchandise sold. He encouraged the guys to start selling merchandise to help support their needs such as: strength coach fees, massage therapy, nutritionist, chiro fees, traveling, entry, the list is endless. They needed something to help them pay for all the little things that make a difference to get to the next level like the big dawgs in the running world Nike, New Balance, Brooks Beast etc.
Fact: Coach Tinman did not control the Tinman Elite. They controlled him. He had no say in what meets to attend, where to stay, when to arrive , training places, etc. So if Coach Tinman advised them to run in this meet or go here to train...it was planned then oops all of sudden the boys didn't want to attend at the last minute. Coach Tinman would make arrangements to travel for training camps, show up, and then some of the guys would change their plans at a moments notice....not show up.
Fact: Coach Tinman has helped Joan for many years with her training plans. He gave her endless free advise on a moments notice either via email or a phone call to adjust training for her team and individual runners on her high school team. His help aided in her team success when she needed it. Yes there is nothing wrong from learning from others. It helps you become a better coach. Coach Tinman NEVER charged Joan any money for his help.
Fact: Coach Tinman's Elite runners don't always get injured. Have you ever thought that other contributing factors outside of training methods, play into how runners may get injured? Not following coaches training plan, sleep, running in meets not advised, running hard on easy days, not following through with physical therapy or massage therapy, doing other sporting activities that could cause you to get injured, or most importantly lack of proper nutrition. This team paved their own destiny, by doing what they wanted and when they wanted to do this or that.
Fact: Coach Tinman does not go behind High School Coaches to coach athletes on their teams. He asks the athletes parents to talk to the Head Coach first to make sure there will be no conflicts. If there are conflicts he does not Coach the athlete. Many times he ends up talking and working with the Head Coach for the benefit of the entire team. He charges a fair amount just like any other coaching service. He has to pay his bills just like you and support his family!
Fact: A few of you call Coach Tinman a dick based on you listening to his podcasts or watching his video's. The man has a PhD, he is full of knowledge and when he gets on a roll, yes he likes to share and educate just like Vigil. How on earth can you judge a person without even meeting them? Coach Tinman gets endless emails and telephone calls from coaches, parents, and runners from all over the world and responds to them. I would not exactly call him a dick for doing this. Don't judge anyone until you have met them in person or talked to them.
I'm furious and completely disappointed in the Tinman Elite team and what you have done not only to Coach "Tinman" Schwartz, but to my entire family. You took advantage of him, you used him and abused him. You took his name "Tinman" which was well known before you even existed and profit $$$. Heck, you didn't even give our family a small % of what you profit off his name, which is unethical. I myself wanted to share this information because the truth needs to be told. I'm tired of people bashing and speculating this and that. I guess we as a family learned a valuable lesson, that is to never trust a bunch of 20 year old's and relocate without a solid contract backed by a lawyer. We will move on with our lives, as you will too. I just ask that you NEVER do this to another Coach...the way you did this to my husband and my family. It was wrong, unprofessional, immature and completely petty. You still have not given my husband ONE reason as to why you let him go. It certainly has nothing to do with your performances. The majority of you guys have run PR's under my husbands guidance.
Lastly, Drew I sure wished you would of stuck to your promise of continuing to work with Coach Tinman. My husband believed in you and we moved to Colorado to support you! You distanced yourself from him, blamed him for your performance when you did not do the little things needed to take care of yourself, you certainly didn't listen to his advise, and trained differently then what he prescribed for you. You were also influenced by your buddy, the media and your Mom. My advise: Have a growth mindset, make your own decisions, act like a professional runner, and focus on YOUR FUTURE, not the Tinman Elite Team. Control your own destiny or someone else will!
Best,
Tammy Schwartz
Thank you Tammy for clearing the air. It is always better to be upfront and end the speculation rather than let everyone on here guess what is going on when they clearly have no clue.
It sounds like the immaturity of the group led to them being influenced by social media and other peers in making a decision that was selfish and undeserving towards a coach that has worked so hard and given so much. These kids are a product of the current age we live and will one day look back on their actions and realize how selfish and foolish their treatment of TInman was. Until then they will continue to struggle. Only maybe one of them will ever run on the world stage. They will continue to suffer mentally in the meantime as they run mediocre elite performances wondering why they can't make that jump. They do not realize their own lack of elite talent, elite lifestyle mindset, and humbleness that it takes to be a great long distance runner. They are not Centro with ridiculous talent who can get away with such things.
Tinman will in the end be the one who was looked on as the righteous one while these 20-year-olds will forever be left with dealing with how they treated this situation. Their love for attention and fame will be their downfall.
FACT: NONE of the Tinman elite wanted their dirty laundry aired on letsrun.com. It is outrageous that you think it is appropriate to smear DH and the rest of TME (regardless of if they have fault or not) because of some mindless speculation by anonymous message board posters.
ksdyfgbsdlkfjnsbdakjhfbk. wrote:
That said, I wonder if Adidas dumped him. This program has to be incredibly expensive to operate. Perhaps this is the end.
Absolutely not. You have Hunter's contract plus a bunch of gear and some travel help for the other guys. Perhaps they're paying Cory Leslie, but he doesn't deserve much. Then they actually get some money back for the apparel they sell at wholesale to have Parsons screenprint in the basement and sell to idiot HS kids.
I think Weldon was making the point that this Tinman thing is an incredibly ragtag operation compared to some of the other groups that are actually professional. Schumacher is making at least $300k, they are paying Dobert and Flanagan to do whatever they do, actual real contracts for the good athletes on the Bowerman squad, flying a dozen athletes up to Park City and their lodging for 4-6 weeks, etc. That's an actual budget.
bannnned i got wrote:
any truth here wrote:
No, Tinman f***ed over the athletes. They've been hurt constantly and they've run like sh*t. He got fired for poor performance. The athletes didn't owe him a damn thing.
Tinman's entire career is built on the back of Drew Hunter's success and nothing else. Tinman should forever be thankful for Drew Hunter.
this will be a good repost when drew hacker runs like sh*t under mommy and is a has been.
al sal groomed ruppy poop since what 8th grade? i bet tinman still gets people to run for him and has success. you guys are all acting like tinman is the same as ryan deaks dad...no that guy was a hack.
that was the guy I once ran with in HS for one short summer.^
Former DIII wrote:
In the process of pitching his coaching services, he claimed to have "designed" my alma mater's (one of the most successful DIII program) training program, which I know to be at best a gross exaggeration and at worst an outright lie.
LAX?
Former DIII wrote:
FACT: NONE of the Tinman elite wanted their dirty laundry aired on letsrun.com. It is outrageous that you think it is appropriate to smear DH and the rest of TME (regardless of if they have fault or not) because of some mindless speculation by anonymous message board posters.
i didnt air anyones laundry, that would be your fuhrer the brojos.....they love bashing people as "news" where the hell have you been? must be new to LR.
how many times did they "drop" things related to peoples lives on LR, and then made them into the HOT thread of the day? lolz
bannnned i got wrote:
Former DIII wrote:
FACT: NONE of the Tinman elite wanted their dirty laundry aired on letsrun.com. It is outrageous that you think it is appropriate to smear DH and the rest of TME (regardless of if they have fault or not) because of some mindless speculation by anonymous message board posters.
i didnt air anyones laundry, that would be your fuhrer the brojos.....they love bashing people as "news" where the hell have you been? must be new to LR.
how many times did they "drop" things related to peoples lives on LR, and then made them into the HOT thread of the day? lolz
I am referring to Mrs. Schwartz's post
Former DIII wrote:
bannnned i got wrote:
i didnt air anyones laundry, that would be your fuhrer the brojos.....they love bashing people as "news" where the hell have you been? must be new to LR.
how many times did they "drop" things related to peoples lives on LR, and then made them into the HOT thread of the day? lolz
I am referring to Mrs. Schwartz's post
so your saying the brojos can start a thread that is destined to bash tinman and all the fan boy trolls will come in and claim this and that to further damage his reputation and his wife cant come set things straight? she didnt go into detail which she could have, but instead she defended her husband and made vague comments of whats going on. why are you so butt hurt about that former slow d3
Former DIII wrote:
bannnned i got wrote:
i didnt air anyones laundry, that would be your fuhrer the brojos.....they love bashing people as "news" where the hell have you been? must be new to LR.
how many times did they "drop" things related to peoples lives on LR, and then made them into the HOT thread of the day? lolz
I am referring to Mrs. Schwartz's post
They fricken disrespected the Schwartz's big time first, I don't care about their feelings and it makes total sense for her to have done that. Defending them now is just dumb.
college xc boi wrote:
Former DIII wrote:
I am referring to Mrs. Schwartz's post
They fricken disrespected the Schwartz's big time first, I don't care about their feelings and it makes total sense for her to have done that. Defending them now is just dumb.
well former slow d3 must be a fan boy. im sure he is super fast as well making $250k a year with a super model wife
SEAHORSE DUST wrote:
It sounds like the immaturity of the group led to them being influenced by social media and other peers in making a decision that was selfish and undeserving towards a coach that has worked so hard and given so much. These kids are a product of the current age we live and will one day look back on their actions and realize how selfish and foolish their treatment of TInman was. Until then they will continue to struggle. Only maybe one of them will ever run on the world stage. They will continue to suffer mentally in the meantime as they run mediocre elite performances wondering why they can't make that jump. They do not realize their own lack of elite talent, elite lifestyle mindset, and humbleness that it takes to be a great long distance runner. They are not Centro with ridiculous talent who can get away with such things.
Tinman will in the end be the one who was looked on as the righteous one while these 20-year-olds will forever be left with dealing with how they treated this situation. Their love for attention and fame will be their downfall.
Yeah kids these days, amirite?
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