Wilson Kipketer beats Rushida

I dont lnow how it is in England or Europe but participation levels in US are higher now than ever before. Another reason along with the internet that US high school and college are ridiculously good now compared to past

steve_perry wrote:

How does two Olympic and WC Golds + a WR make it a close contest? Rudisha is a better racer AND faster than Kipketer. It's no contest.

Because Wilson Kipketer once botched his pacing in Zurich and still ran only 3 tenths slower. He never got it just right - Rudisha in London absolutely did.

How do you deduce that Rudisha is a better racer - the Olympic wins? Those are 2 races my friend - that is not a discussion ender. Go and watch Kipketer racing the 3 world finals in 95,97,99 and tell me after that he's a better racer than Rudisha who could win in only one way.

You just don't know what you're talking about. Watch this race, and tell me he only knows how to run one way. Leading it out slow, warding off challengers and then running the last 200 in 24.3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Os4GVtFUgmM&t=354s&ab_channel=WorldAthletics

Or in 2011 when he burned everyone with a fast 200 (23.8), cruised a 54.1 400 and then accelerated with a sub-26 200 that nobody could even come close to answering. Meanwhile, Kipketer didn't ever know where to place himself in Finals and had to win on his fitness advantage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8cvcJZGHi0&ab_channel=speedFIYAH

hannsen wrote:

I dont lnow how it is in England or Europe but participation levels in US are higher now than ever before. Another reason along with the internet that US high school and college are ridiculously good now compared to past

Yes I agree, and that's why we have Max Burgin running 1;44 at 18 and a stack of exceptionally talented youngsters following behind him. Another huge reason is the extra motivation created by the belief that it is possible again to compete on a level playing field with the Africans again. No doubt the kids today are also watching and learning about the old greats like Snell and Coe, and they know that when they come here and read about how Kenyans have some kind of special genetics, it's just old farts talking nonsense.

Yes.......... wrote:

Rushida has the WR & great PR's. But W.Kipketer was the best 800M runner ever & would've beat Rushida.

WKip couldn't compete in the Olympics during his prime (citizenship issues) so lacks an Olympic Gold. But he beats Rushida. Vs the very best, it was a Varsity runner vs JV runners. He was strong & had gears- better than Rushida's.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RoROe1-h6Xw

Kipketer is out in 49 and runs 1:42 POSITiVE SPLIT??? But the other thread said NEGATIVE SPLIT BETTER?????

WHICH IS BETTER??????

Coevett wrote:

Another huge reason is the extra motivation created by the belief that it is possible again to compete on a level playing field with the Africans again.

You've said a lot of dumb things, but this might take the cake.

Bjorn Rodahl looked pretty sharp in that race. I thought 1:42 was a one-off thing for him.

You Kipketer folk are insane.

Rudisha led the whole way and ran faster than Kipketer ever did. He has 2 Olympic golds and 2 WC golds. He has the top 3 times ever and 6 of the top 8. This one is not a head scratcher — on guy is better than the other!

Gotta remember it's all hypothetical! They both beat the best there was in their day and ran WRs - therefore they ran faster than any runner had ever done previously in the history of the world. Rudisha led all the way in 2012 thus he ran pretty close to 800m in total. Some of the other great 800m performances previously involved running around the pack on the turn. How far did they really run for the PB or WR?

BTW, if we were actually talking about GOAT the field has to include Snell and Coe. Lots of era-specific factors to consider but Coe is still the third fastest of all time - 40 years later. Both he and Snell took the 800m into new territory in the way they trained and raced and weren't afraid to compete even when it was likely they might be beaten.

Probably true for everyone except Coe!

The bottom line -

Kipketer could not kick. He could run the same pace smoothly.

Rudisha could both go out in 49.0 and close faster than all.

Kipketer and Coe are the two greatest 800m choke artists of all-time at the Olympics. They are the only WR holders to never win GOLD.

dudes

choking at the top, it happens.

but its not the case generally.

in you don't have your A game come Olympics or you have bad luck, you are out.

then the next olympics if you get old or boycot, or injured, you are out.

the OG win, is product of right place right time.

the most abused guy is Fernando mamde.

converted sprinter that sets the WR in 10K.

for that epic achievement he gets the choker label.

when the dude was useless after rounds.

as always, the general public sucks, and is evil.

there is no other way to put it.

mamde needs HOF, and accolades.

then it is the job of the general public to spew stupid garbage.

Agree - choking happens but it doesn't define the lifetime performance of any of the potential GOATs. If refusing to choke (i.e. holding your nerve and sticking to your plan) is the KPI then Doubell and Wottle have to be contenders!

It's hard to believe that Kipketer wasn't on the sauce at the height of the EPO era. And even if Rudisha has been doping too, he wouldn't have been able to go near full-throttle like Kipketer.

The 2000 Olympic final in which Kipketer chokes again. Listen to the commentary by Sebastian Coe and note how angry he is with Kipketer for throwing away his last chance to win Olympic gold. Most people here think Coe is up his own behind, but there was no jealousy here or desire not to see Kipketer do what he himself never managed to do (win 800 Olympic gold). Just the opposite. The Kenyans and the apologists for Kenyan dopers here absolutely loathe Coe for some strange reason. Probably because he's the biggest contradictory piece of evidence to their sick racist belief that Europeans can't run as fast as Kenyans. Yet it's obvious he loves Kenyans and has bent over backwards to avoid banning them, and instead has coaxed them into sorting out their doping mess, which was essential for the survival of the sport.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8q3QNQ8J3s

BTW, how come everybody agrees that Kipketer choked, yet disagree that Morcelli choked in 92?

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

Coevett wrote:

Another huge reason is the extra motivation created by the belief that it is possible again to compete on a level playing field with the Africans again.

You've said a lot of dumb things, but this might take the cake.

Lol, you're quite the idiot doping apologist if you think young non-African kids being told again and again that they don't have the right skin color to compete with those 'natural born runner' East Africans wont affect their motivation, desire, and self-belief.

There was actually a study done on this that confirmed it - I posted the link here once, can't be bothered searching for it at the moment.

Coevett wrote:

The 2000 Olympic final in which Kipketer chokes again.

Kipketer had malaria in 1998.

You are the master of finding excuses for your favorite runners, how about accepting that Kenyans have illnesses, injuries, accidents, etc. in their lives too?

Coevett wrote:

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

You've said a lot of dumb things, but this might take the cake.

Lol, you're quite the idiot doping apologist if you think young non-African kids being told again and again that they don't have the right skin color to compete with those 'natural born runner' East Africans wont affect their motivation, desire, and self-belief.

There was actually a study done on this that confirmed it - I posted the link here once, can't be bothered searching for it at the moment.

The real idiots are/were the ones telling non-African kids they don't have the right skin color to compete.

Take the money away from baseball/football/basketball in the US and soccer in the rest of the world, and make track a sport that can give meaningful financial rewards to kids all over the world the way soccer does now, and the way track does in Africa.

It was money in other sports that almost destroyed running as a professional sport for non-Africans, not African running great times, regardless of what your "study" may claim.

I was involved in coaching in the 90s and I saw unbelievable talent being lost to other sports.

Look at Donavan Brazier who still talks about wanting to become a football player. A guy that could threaten the 800m world record.

2435 wrote:

Coevett wrote:

The 2000 Olympic final in which Kipketer chokes again.

Kipketer had malaria in 1998.

https://www.worldathletics.org/news/news/wilson-kipketer-hospitalised-with-malaria

You are the master of finding excuses for your favorite runners, how about accepting that Kenyans have illnesses, injuries, accidents, etc. in their lives too?

Of course he wasn't the force he was, but he did have a great opportunity to win that race, as Coe clearly stated in the commentary.

Coevett wrote:

Lol, you're quite the idiot doping apologist if you think young non-African kids being told again and again that they don't have the right skin color to compete with those 'natural born runner' East Africans wont affect their motivation, desire, and self-belief.

Asterix, East and West Africans are equally talented for middle/long distance and sprints, correct?