Is Michael Saruni the first athlete to run 45 in the 400 and 3:45 in the 1500 (in a tactical race at that)?

Why such a list, since vast majority on it do not meet the requirements? 45 for 400m and under 3:45 for 1500m. Also, Sammy Koskei never ran 45.80.

Relay splits don't count as PRs -- running start. If they did some sprinters would have 8.XX 100m PRs from relay splits.

My biggest take away from this list is that the vast majority of the best 800m runners spend/have spent significant time at altitude

Good pick up on Sammy’s 400 time, not sure how that got on the list! Would be quite a feat for a guy that also ran 13:43 as well!

01:42.7 Donavan Brazier 46.91 3.37.18 Y

Update:

1:42.34 Donavan Brazier 46.91i 2:21.79i 3:35.85 35-45mpw N

That 400m was indoor, and he was also on a Texas A and M 4x400m relay outdoors that ran 3:02.96 with Fred Kerley. The article below has Brazier's split at 45.7, which is commensurate with about 46.5 open. Kerley's split was only 1/2 s faster than Brazier's.

"In the 4x400 the A&M men posted a winning time of 3:02.96 over Texas Tech (3:05.18), Stanford (3:05.59) and Baylor (3:06.68). The relay consisted of Deon Hickey (47.1), Robert Grant (45.0), Donavan Brazier (45.7) and Fred Kerley (45.2)."

https://www.flotrack.org/video/5609580-mens-4x400m-relay-heat-3---donavan-brazier-texas-am-run-302

(subscribers only)

https://12thman.com/news/2016/4/23/track-and-field-chase-wolfle-jazmine-fray-break-am-records-during-michael-johnson-invitational.aspx

alien wrote:

pretty sure evan jager has done this if you count 4x400 splits

Evan Jager has never had 45xx 400 speed.

Sub 45 and sub 3:45 are such arbitrary figures. Coe appears to have the most powerful combination of abilities over these two distances, by far

Coe didn't even run 22.5 for 200 in a race. And that was within 30 days of his 800m WR. So at his sharpest. He finished last behind 3 good 200m runners but certainly not say sub 21 guys. The idea that he could run 45 in a 400 race is fantasy.

Sub 46 makes you competitive at 400m and sub 3:45 makes you somewhat of a 4:00 miler. So that's an interesting combination, which was rarely achieved. The list of people with Coe - like abilities is a lot longer.

TuesdayNight wrote:

Sub 45 and sub 3:45 are such arbitrary figures. Coe appears to have the most powerful combination of abilities over these two distances, by far

Still Waiting wrote:

Coe didn't even run 22.5 for 200 in a race. And that was within 30 days of his 800m WR. So at his sharpest. He finished last behind 3 good 200m runners but certainly not say sub 21 guys. The idea that he could run 45 in a 400 race is fantasy.

He ran that 22.6 a month before his 800m WR on May 13th, so he wouldn't have been at his peak in terms of speed for the season. Indeed, he probably wasn't at his peak on June 10th when he set the 800 WR.

That 22.6 was run on a dirt track where he was 4th out of 4, having already won the individual 400m and having taken part in the 4 x 400m. Those in front of him were a 10.6/21.4 sprinter (Pitts), a 10.7 100m sprinter (Crosby) and a 21.6 200m runner (Marsden).

Coe ran many times under 22.0 for 200m repeats in training and his 45.65 split at Crystal Palace 90mins after front running a 1:44.0, a few weeks later, showed that he was more than capable of a sub 46 secs 400m at his best. The race below shows him stumble at takeover, hobble through start/finish line and ease off at end when he knew he'd won. The normal conversion from relay to open is 0.7secs, but in this case it's certainly a lot less than 0.3, and probably nothing.

think first wrote:

Sub 46 makes you competitive at 400m and sub 3:45 makes you somewhat of a 4:00 miler. So that's an interesting combination, which was rarely achieved.

The list of people with Coe - like abilities is a lot longer.

Well, yes, if you're talking about 45 secs and 3:45, but if you consider pbs at both events, then

Coe is the only athlete to have officially (at altitude) run sub 47 and sub 3:30. If you look at relay splits for 400m potential, then he's the only sub 3:30 athlete to have recorded a 45 secs 400m split.

DwideSchrude wrote:

All in the subject line. Is Michael Saruni the first athlete to accomplish this type of capability from 400 speed of 45 to manage to also have the strength to run 3:45 for 1500? Let alone doing that 3:45 in a tactical race. He is likely in sub 3:40 shape.

Love the question.

Dislike people changing the question to include their favorite runners 🙄

Coe should have been facing the inside of the track to take the baton! More than likely would have gotten away cleanly had he done so :)

Agree with the 0.7 conversion for 400m guys, but I feel that 800m types lose close to 1.0 when coming out of blocks, hence their relay splits are so much better,

I was there when Duane ran his sub 46 400 PB and he was horrible out of the blocks. With a better start he would have easily dropped 0.5 off his time.

Side note, was also there when Mike March ran his 45.08 from lane one with a standing start (but that's getting a long way off topic sorry).

The 4 x 4 was after the 200 when loughborough had already lost the meet. Dave Crosby was very much a 100m runner. Nowhere near as good over 200m. Andy Pitts was a decent 200 runner but like I said he finished last behind guys that weren't even sub 21 guys. If he ran sub 22 in training many times but only 22.6 in a race that would show you how much he'd lose in a 400 compared to a 400m leg.