Help me decide: Top 20 University or Pursue Running??

d1hopefulbutfinewithD3 (OP) wrote:

800mto5K wrote:

Please name the schools. Nobody knows who you are. Just tell us.

I am going to major in Political Science and/or Econ. The schools are Northwestern University and Hamilton College.

Funny that I just mentioned Northwestern in the my previous response without knowing you responded while I typed this.

That being said, go to Northwestern. End of discussion. The alumni network is huge and strong and connected.

d1hopefulbutfinewithD3 (OP) wrote:

800mto5K wrote:

Please name the schools. Nobody knows who you are. Just tell us.

I am going to major in Political Science and/or Econ. The schools are Northwestern University and Hamilton College.

Ya go to Northwestern. You'd be right there near Chicago with tons of internship or part-time work opportunities and Evanston still has different college vibes such that it doesn't feel like you're living in a big city. And you'll still have the Big Ten conference university vibes which are pretty fun.

You could do well at either of these places. They are very different. Hamilton is rusticated. There is not the constant stimulation of a highly urban environment. You could have some peace and quite to study. Adironacks are easy day trip. Urban campus is the opposite, constantly the new thing and maybe easier to slide into semi-anonymous participation than out in the country. Whatever your interest, you will find some people.

Liberal Arts Sounds Terrible wrote:

d1hopefulbutfinewithD3 (OP) wrote:

I am going to major in Political Science and/or Econ. The schools are Northwestern University and Hamilton College.

Ya go to Northwestern. You'd be right there near Chicago with tons of internship or part-time work opportunities and Evanston still has different college vibes such that it doesn't feel like you're living in a big city. And you'll still have the Big Ten conference university vibes which are pretty fun.

d1hopefulbutfinewithd3 wrote:

Hi All,

I am currently debating between attending a top 20 US news university (closer to 10 than it is to 20) and a small liberal arts college in New York. If I were to go to the liberal arts college, I'd be able to run for their team but I may not get the prestigious education I'd get at the T20 university. Conversely, if I go to the T20, I'd get a stellar education (although I'll note that this University is better known for its "name" than it is for my major) but I would not be running for their team.

Any input?

I don't understand the point of these threads. Millions of HS kids have chosen schools without starting a thread for help. There are different variables to consider and only you can decide which ones are most important to you.

d1hopefulbutfinewithd3 wrote:

Hi All,

I am currently debating between attending a top 20 US news university (closer to 10 than it is to 20) and a small liberal arts college in New York. If I were to go to the liberal arts college, I'd be able to run for their team but I may not get the prestigious education I'd get at the T20 university. Conversely, if I go to the T20, I'd get a stellar education (although I'll note that this University is better known for its "name" than it is for my major) but I would not be running for their team.

Any input?

If you are holding up the education as THE main thing, then Northwestern is the choice.

BUT...

...Hamilton is a decent school, and it is valid to consider how you want your lifestyle to be over the next 4 years. There are lots of successful people who went to colleges other than those of the level of Northwestern.

Things to consider:

1) Are you planning to go to graduate school? If so, research graduate school admission rates for those who got undergrad degrees from those schools.

2) Why not consider an even more prestigious DIII school other than Hamilton? That way you get the better school name AND you could run for them. Just some possibilities - Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore, Pomona, Claremont McKenna, WashU, University of Chicago, Carnegie Mellon.

TOP 20 University for sure!

Nico Young is going to NAU but if running does not work out then all he has is a degree from NAU.

Cole Sprout on the other hand is set for life regardless.

RegretfulD3Runner wrote:

I had essentially the same choice as you and made the wrong decision. Not as good a school academically, too little major / class options, and cross country and outdoor track were both cancelled this year because of Covid, so can't even run. Go to Northwestern and definitely do not go to the small liberal arts school - your future career will thank you

This seems a little over the top, Hamilton has plenty of alumni that are quite accomplished.

CEO of Goldman Sachs.

Former Governor of Iowa and former Secretary of Agriculture.

Co-founder of Netflix.

Etc.

Go to the top 20 school. You'll probably do better in life from that than anything you achieve from running.

Wow. I mean, there are too many variables that you have not touched upon, but I think a lot of people who have responded are just not informed about the quality of education you can receive at Hamilton or some other schools that size. Northwestern is not a clearly superior choice academically. Greater name recognition for sure, but it quite honestly depends on what you want to do with your life. I tend not to worry about things like prestige and what other people think so much, which is why I chose a school in the same athletic conference as Hamilton over an Ivy League university and other more highly ranked and prestigious NESCACs- but now I visit LR several times a day, so maybe I made the wrong choice after all.

In all seriousness, there is a lot to be said for having classes that meet in your prof's living room sometimes, of having profs who know you by name and send you job referrals months after they taught you (how I got my first job), being able to get feedback on your writing from your prof and not from some TA, etc., etc. Not to mention the fact that you could continue to actively participate in a sport you care about for several more years. Grad and professional school admissions officers will absolutely know the value of your Hamilton education.

In conclusion, try and drown out the noise as you make the decision and be honest with yourself about what it is you want (and don't take the path more often followed just because).

highhoppingworm wrote:

Nobody gives a crap where you went to school by the time you are 23. .

I’m fifty and my education is put on every project proposal I am part of. I live in San Francisco where going to Cal is considered a safety school so education matters depending on your industry or location.

FWIW - I went to second tier public universities for my degrees and it is a liability for me even 25 years later. Brand matters and don’t let anyone tell you different.

Have you gone online and applied for the big 4 accountancy firms or looked at being an actuary? Teaching? Random graduate scheme? Which university did you go to? Most Russell Group (and even solid 1992 group) graduates are able to get a gig somewhere.

Go for the good school. You don't have to go to a good d1 school to be the best you can be. Pursue your academics and your running.

Perfume Dreams wrote:

highhoppingworm wrote:

Nobody gives a crap where you went to school by the time you are 23. .

I’m fifty and my education is put on every project proposal I am part of. I live in San Francisco where going to Cal is considered a safety school so education matters depending on your industry or location.

FWIW - I went to second tier public universities for my degrees and it is a liability for me even 25 years later. Brand matters and don’t let anyone tell you different.

Let me rephrase... nobody give a crap where you went to undergrad. Does that work better? Clearly grad school starts to matter for the long run.

Running should play a very small role in your college decision unless you were a D1 level recruited athlete where it might help you pay for college. In 5 years whether you competed in sports or at what level will have no bearing on your life. Money should always be a part of your decision. Very few parents are truly so wealthy that paying $280K doesn't make a dent in their retirement plans. The 2 schools you are deciding between are both very highly rated. Liberal arts colleges are not all created equal. Hamilton's admitted student middle 50th percentile is ACT score is 32 - 34 which makes it highly selective. There are many other liberal arts schools which are far less selective making for a different college experience. One statistic you should look at is average class size for both schools. If you are the type of student who excelled with Zoom learning, perhaps this won't matter but if you do better in smaller class sizes my guess would be Hamilton will be very different from Northwestern in this regard. You probably already know this but Northwestern, although it is in Chicago, is in a very nice area of Chicago. Evanston is not Hyde Park nor is it quiet, leafy upstate New York. Make your decision based on academics and your long term plans, not running

Go to Northwestern. It’s an elite world class institution and you’ll be surrounded by incredible people who will do and have done incredible things. I don’t understand how this is even a debate, going to a liberal arts college is an idiotic choice for your future and present

highhoppingworm wrote:

Perfume Dreams wrote:

I’m fifty and my education is put on every project proposal I am part of. I live in San Francisco where going to Cal is considered a safety school so education matters depending on your industry or location.

FWIW - I went to second tier public universities for my degrees and it is a liability for me even 25 years later. Brand matters and don’t let anyone tell you different.

Let me rephrase... nobody give a crap where you went to undergrad. Does that work better? Clearly grad school starts to matter for the long run.

Grad school is not relevant here. Where you go to undergrad shapes you as a person and OP has a choice to become an elite by going to Northwestern, or to be surrounded by people who made the relatively easy cutoff at the small liberal arts school.

You realize parents pay millions to get their kids into schools like Northwestern! That’s because they know their kids will be around motivated high-achievers.

Employers definitely do care what’s on your diploma if you’re applying for a desirable job. I think the liberal arts graduate here are now working at Starbucks so if you’re trying to be a barista, yes, your college doesn’t matter much. Moreover you will be shaped by your college experience and let me tell you, it will be obvious within 30 seconds in an interview whether you have an elite background like Northwestern or spent 4 years surrounded by simple folks at a small liberal arts school.

Northwestern and Hamilton have relatively similar admission standards. I believe percent admitted was 11% vs 19% and a lot more people apply to Northwestern as a Hail Mary. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

You also loosely throw around the word “Elite”. What does that mean exactly? My guess is you consider Northwestern “elite” simply because you have heard of it. You probably also think it is a superior academic institution to schools like Williams, Middlebury, Swarthmore and Amherst despite all empirical data indicating otherwise.

In short, you are fairly clueless and shouldn’t really be giving input on this type of stuff.

Disagree completely. They are relatively similar caliber schools with a slight nod to NW. I would still probably select NW but you are creating a false dichotomy between the two. Northwestern would also rank far below many elite liberal arts schools.

IF this was going to be your terminal degree (like you wanted to major in engineering and nothing further), I would say go with the brand name. However, with a history/poli sci degree, graduate school is on the horizon for you, so how you do no matter where you go is key.

I think it’s better to be a big fish in a small pond at first, and Hamilton may very well fit that bill for you. Plus, you probably have a better chance of getting to know your professors and establishing connections that way at the smaller school.

It also sounds like you want to be on a team and keep competing. If Hamilton is cheaper for you and your parents or you can get some money, I think this is an easy decision. The keys to success are learning how to think and then having a thirst for knowledge. That will serve you better than a brand undergrad where you might struggle and feel like giving up because everyone around you is a genius.