What kind of 3200m shape am I in based on this workout?

High School Running Distance

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3 years ago 03/25/2021 9:38am EDT

re: Jwilliams.18

Jwilliams.18 wrote:
Confused... wrote:
Why are you running 12 mile long runs at 5:46 pace? I was a 14:20's 5k guy in college and ran with a bunch of 13:40 guys who never ran remotely near that pace on long runs. What the point of a 12 miler at 5:46 when you're training for a two mile race? You'd be a lot better if you knew how to train.
That is not my normal long run pace at all, all winter I’ve kept it around 6:30 pace on long runs. It was the first warm day of the year here in Michigan and my brother/training partner told me to run sub 5:30s on the last six miles, which I did. I don’t know how you could so quickly deduce that I don’t know how to train based off of one long run. Obviously I don’t train perfectly, but plenty of programs push their long runs on occasions. In fact, plenty of top high school runners do all of their training at sub 6 pace regardless of the day. If I end up a 14:20 guy in college I’d be pretty disappointed in myself.

Considering your 9:20 isn't even worth a sub 15 5k, I'd stop being cocky towards someone who is much better than you. The guy's advice about hammering a LR is legitimate, it's way too fast for your level, and even then, 12 mile LRs aren't the best idea for 2 mile training. He could've been nicer, but I would just should just brush it off and consider the advice for what it is.

Without being rude, it looks like you could benefit from a couple things : your workouts have slight positive splits, your first 2 mile race had a big positive split, and you got kicked in the state race (maybe they were better runners ? ) I'd start workouts a bit slower, focus on closing them harder, don't "go the well" too much in a short interval of time and keep the long runs at 6:30, not 5:45. I have teammates capable of running sub 14, low 14s, sub 4 miles, sub 4:10 ... and our long runs are run at 6:15-30 pace. Progressions might get down to 5:30-40 average for 8ish miles, but then again it's in control. It's also my opinion that hard long runs are not very useful for 1500-5k racing, but that's another debate haha. 1500-5k pace work is really what matters, because you just need to be able to hold that pace for some time.

Anecdotally, the guys (around 8 or so) I know who hammer their LRs at 5:30 for 12+ miles consistently underperform in races. That kind of work is good for a marathon and 1/2, but when you're racing for 4-15 minutes, it does more harm to your body than good.

3 years ago 03/26/2021 2:20pm EDT

re: 9:20

9:20 wrote:
Jwilliams.18 wrote:
That is not my normal long run pace at all, all winter I’ve kept it around 6:30 pace on long runs. It was the first warm day of the year here in Michigan and my brother/training partner told me to run sub 5:30s on the last six miles, which I did. I don’t know how you could so quickly deduce that I don’t know how to train based off of one long run. Obviously I don’t train perfectly, but plenty of programs push their long runs on occasions. In fact, plenty of top high school runners do all of their training at sub 6 pace regardless of the day. If I end up a 14:20 guy in college I’d be pretty disappointed in myself.
Considering your 9:20 isn't even worth a sub 15 5k, I'd stop being cocky towards someone who is much better than you. The guy's advice about hammering a LR is legitimate, it's way too fast for your level, and even then, 12 mile LRs aren't the best idea for 2 mile training. He could've been nicer, but I would just should just brush it off and consider the advice for what it is.
Without being rude, it looks like you could benefit from a couple things : your workouts have slight positive splits, your first 2 mile race had a big positive split, and you got kicked in the state race (maybe they were better runners ? ) I'd start workouts a bit slower, focus on closing them harder, don't "go the well" too much in a short interval of time and keep the long runs at 6:30, not 5:45. I have teammates capable of running sub 14, low 14s, sub 4 miles, sub 4:10 ... and our long runs are run at 6:15-30 pace. Progressions might get down to 5:30-40 average for 8ish miles, but then again it's in control. It's also my opinion that hard long runs are not very useful for 1500-5k racing, but that's another debate haha. 1500-5k pace work is really what matters, because you just need to be able to hold that pace for some time.
Anecdotally, the guys (around 8 or so) I know who hammer their LRs at 5:30 for 12+ miles consistently underperform in races. That kind of work is good for a marathon and 1/2, but when you're racing for 4-15 minutes, it does more harm to your body than good.

Thank you for the advice, this is really helpful. I’m not arguing that 12 mile long runs at that pace are a smart way of training for a 3200, I was just annoyed that this guy assumed that I’m an idiot who can’t train based off of one long run. Obviously you know nothing about my past, but generally I almost never go to the well in workouts. Two weeks ago was more of an odd occasion for myself. I also haven’t done a single long run faster than 6:25 pace this winter other than the one in question. And yes I know that 9:20 isn’t some crazy time (while it is actually equivalent to a 14:58), but the context behind the performance shows me that I can run at least 9:10. I’m pretty confident in my ability to break 9 this year as well. And yes the two guys who beat me are simply better runners. The winner, Riley Hough, actually won the Division 1 State xc championships, beating Hobbs Kessler by 2 seconds in a Time Trial format (they were in different heats). Also running the second fastest time ever on our state meet course (ahead of Grant Fisher, behind Dathan). Although the 48-second close was by far the fastest I’ve ever closed a race, so I actually left with a good taste in my mouth.

3 years ago 03/27/2021 9:11am EDT

re: 9:20

My point exactly. And the OP's post:

"Or maybe I’m just curious what pace I should be racing at based on the workout? Other people on Letsrun might have been in similar shape at one point in their lives and they could give me valuable advice, which they did. After some careful consideration, I’m glad to say that I am not disappointed in myself."

Shows his naivety, as everyone's response to training and fitness is different. I was a cross guy in college. I was never up and down and consistently ran 24:20-30. I had much faster 5k teammates that were all over the place in cross. Most of these guys demolished me in track. Other's flamed out because they trained too hard. Difference was my consistency in training; as well as racing on the cross course. I'd also been running about 1/3 of the time they had as I started junior year of high school.

So OP; you can certainly be disappointed if you don't run faster than I did. You also undoubtedly and likely will run faster. Fact remains, you're training incorrectly and not racing up to the standards of your training. So that's more telling than anything...

3 years ago 03/27/2021 9:36am EDT

re: Jwilliams.18

Ok good, hope my comments can help. You definitely have a lot of talent and are clearly very motivated to succeed, so congrats on the race and good luck for the future!

ps. I get that it can be annoying that people are rude here but that's the nature of Letsrun lol

3 years ago 03/27/2021 9:55am EDT

re: Jwilliams.18

Okay, thanks. Maybe I'll try something like that.

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