Hot take on the recent middle distance madness

hmmm i think this is a contributor

i dont think cooper and hocker run 3:50 indoors if they ran a sick 10k 2 months ago

Straightfromtheoven wrote:

Hot take: The absolute insanity you’ve seen in the NCAA middle distance races over the past few weeks is a result of all of these elite level track athletes NOT being forced through a full XC season in the fall.

Change my mind.

I'll support this notion.

Before all the naysayers start in on the shoes note that Hoppel (Adidas) and Purrier (NBalance) we're not in Dragonfly's!

rockymountainhigh wrote:

I'll support this notion.

Before all the naysayers start in on the shoes note that Hoppel (Adidas) and Purrier (NBalance) we're not in Dragonfly's!

I’m a little surprised that the NCAA women’s mid-d hasn’t gone stupid mode too. A lot more top level mid-d women get forced into XC mode because the 6k lets them be more competitive. Maybe it’s coming.

rockymountainhigh wrote:

Straightfromtheoven wrote:

Hot take: The absolute insanity you’ve seen in the NCAA middle distance races over the past few weeks is a result of all of these elite level track athletes NOT being forced through a full XC season in the fall.

Change my mind.

I'll support this notion.

Before all the naysayers start in on the shoes note that Hoppel (Adidas) and Purrier (NBalance) we're not in Dragonfly's!

100% agree, back when i was in college i peaked 2 weeks before cross nationals (i was trying to be an 800 guy and had to train with the cross guys), i PRd in my first indoor meet in dec then i slowly declined. trying to do 3 sports in one year and peak for all of them is a huge mistake in college

The training needed to run a competitive 8k/10k and the training needed to run the quality seen this indoor season are quite different and having to make that switch in 3 months is hard on the body. BUT I’ll add to my own hot take by saying this is just one piece of many things coming together at the same time:

1) No XC

2) Shoe tech

3) Meets/events being turned into time trials instead of races.

4) Athlete having to worry less about academics than ever before because they don’t have to try at virtual school.

5) Whatever new training secret Ben Thomas seems to have discovered

Mix it all together.... insanity

Excellently Positive Observations!

Could be less partying and social stuff going on because of covid. Digital classes. Competent coach and training. Magic shoes. Watching a high schooler run 3:57. Nothing to do but train and race hard. I also heard that vax puts some pep in your step.

Also seeing a college aged white kid run 3:31 a few days prior and let’s not forget the letsrun affect.

Excellent Positive Observation wrote:

Also seeing a college aged white kid run 3:31 a few days prior and let’s not forget the letsrun affect.

I do tend to forget the letsrun affect.

Curious to know how much American collegiate studs guys like Teare and Hocker are paying attention to Jakob Ingebrigsten? J.I. Is younger than Teare and less than a year older than Hocker. Teare and Hocker ran 1.5 second faster than anyone in the history of NCAA indoor track.... and yet....plop the Norwegian in that race (time trial) and he beats them by, what, an additional 1.5-2.5 seconds? The Duck men closed fast (55 last 400), but came through 1500 around 3:35 en route. JI solo’ed a 3:31.

These are mad times we live in I tell you.... mad times!

I agree with the guy who said three seasons is just too much, and it’s likely part of why these guys are doing so well. I went to high school in California so I only ever had to seasons in a year and that alone seemed more than enough I don’t know why we all put up with three seasons in a year that’s ridiculous. How is indoor even different that outdoor? It’s not, so why have it?

LOL, you are naughty.

ienjoyracing wrote:

I agree with the guy who said three seasons is just too much, and it’s likely part of why these guys are doing so well. I went to high school in California so I only ever had to seasons in a year and that alone seemed more than enough I don’t know why we all put up with three seasons in a year that’s ridiculous. How is indoor even different that outdoor? It’s not, so why have it?

Whoa whoa whoa.... we’re gathered here today to show that indoor track is benefiting from NOT having XC to deal with, not arguing for more time between XC and track. This is America, and in america we overload our potential future Olympians with things like 3 season years, dual meets simply because of tradition, and deciding careers are over after 2 suspect bad performances.

That’s just how it is

Records galore this year means most runners were probably overtraining. Either that or some new drug has hit the scene.

Not a hot take

And all of the professional middle distance runners of the past that that don’t run XC and never ran as fast?

Keep xc in Jan/Feb in the future.

Make xc 8k for both genders so it remains a distance event and not a mid distance event.

Only allow atheltes to compete in 2 seasons, either xc/outdoor or indoor/outdoor but not both.

Give 6 women's and 5 mens xc scholarships to fund your xc team and true distance events in outdoor track.

Eliminate 5k from indoor track

Keep the other 12.6/18 for other events

If on an xc scholarship you can run xc and outdoor.

If on a track scholarship you can run indoor and outdoor.

No more 3 seasons. No more 2 semesters.

Straightfromtheoven wrote:

Hot take: The absolute insanity you’ve seen in the NCAA middle distance races over the past few weeks is a result of all of these elite level track athletes NOT being forced through a full XC season in the fall.

Change my mind.

I like this take. 3 seasons & tons of racing probably isn't the best for long term development, staying in the sport after college, and staying injury free while there.

Our college coach essentially ostracized me for refusing to train with the XC team--told me if I didn't show up every day w/ the XC team I couldn't run track. I wasn't being a jerk; I simply knew what training was best for me, and it certainly wasn't 40 minutes tempos! I ignored him, dropped 7 seconds from my 800, beat all his top guys at the intramural/tryout meet, at which point he relented and let me on, begrudgingly.

Juice Springsteen wrote:

Not a hot take

Going to have to try harder to change my mind

......................... wrote:

Keep xc in Jan/Feb in the future.

.

Obviously coming from someone that lives in the south.

Try training up north here where it hasnt been above 25 degrees for 3 weeks, 10" of snow on the ground.