The High Mileage Test (Inspired by NIKE FREE ME) Training Log

happens - I probably overeat when I'm running less than 60 ish mpw and in general I probably eat the right amount naturally for 60 - 90 mpw. Recently with the large miles I probably eat just enough. I have a tiny snack before my morning run, a medium sized breakfast after the first run, roughly 1000 calories at this point. I might have a granola bar or something sugary which gets me to about 1200 before my next run. I then eat as much as I possibly can the rest of the night, which seems to be close to 2000 calories. Some nights I definitely don't get a ton of calories and others I'll eat an insane amount, so in general, I don't worry about it. but basically, unless I have more than 4 hours between a meal and the next run, I try to eat relatively light. I do like to drink gatorade during treadmill runs, but that's only like 100 calories.

Another update: Tuesday morning I only got 6.5 miles in before calling it, I could barely do my hill sprints because of my foot. I took that night and Wednesday off and just ran this morning (7 ish miles) with almost no pain. I Iced in a bucket about 15 times and alternated with hot water over those two days and it seems to have helped a tiny bit, but I also retied my shoes the "lydiard way" and put cottonballs between my toes and in the end of my shoe so that there's less pressure on the top of my foot. Now my ankle just feels sore and turns hurt my foot, but that's much better than constant sharp pain. I think I'm in the clear, but I'll be very proactive about it.

Dec. 12 - Dec. 19

Sat. | Dec. 12| 16.8 miles

Sun. | Dec. 13. | 10 miles

Mon. | Dec. 14 | 12 miles in 1:35

Tues. | Dec. 15 | 15.2 miles

Wed. | Dec. 16 | 9.1 miles | 8 x alactic hills + 2 x Tempo Intervals

Thurs. | Dec. 17 | 22.45 miles

Fri. | Dec. 18 | 8.68 miles

Sat.| Dec. 19 | 12 miles 8 x alactic hills + 4 x strides

Total: 106.23

Review: Pandemic is messing with my head a bit. But since I am just trying to build mileage, I don't really care what day it is, I just go further when I feel I can. Surprised I already crested 100mpw. I am a trail runner who finished up an FKT project in October so I actually have had a bit of trail fatigue. Most of these miles are logged on roads, hence the higher mileage than I anticipated. These times are hard on everyone and for me, it sort of trickles into my motivation to lace up. So what I have been doing is mapping out large loops into the countryside and leaving my watch at home. Then, I have to finish the sucker or else I am stranded. I am a slogger for sure. My cadence is usually around 170-172. Faster feels unnatural. I am also quad-dominant from cycling so I have been gently focusing on dorsiflexed ankles, high hip drive and better push off. Medium-length efforts are ~high 7-min/miles, long runs are ~8:30s. That 22.45 mile long run was cathartic but I died hard in the last 8 miles. I think I need that though as a barometer. Not going to push for more mileage until my long run feels steadier.

adidas free me - hope your foot is feeling better

HRE - any suggestions (adidas free me too)? I am a 2:47 marathoner. What is a good pace range for me for the day-to-day mileage, just play by feel? I think I am going to gently aim for alactic hill reps and/or strides 2-3 times a week. Maybe some tempo intervals if I feel like a little focusing up.

Hope you don't mind if I contribute to your Thread Adidas, cheers all

well you are smart to listen to your body and rest. Health before miles. you won't lose what you have gained. and once it passes you can resume high mileage training - until then you just have to be patient.

Before i had my 20 weeks of high mileage i did several shorter test of runs: the two long run in a row, then 3, then 9)....but once i was ready to start running 100+ weeks, with the goal being to hit 140 consistently i had weekly "set backs"

My first weeks went something like this

week 1 - 119 had to take 1 and half days off - sore calves

week 2 - 117 same thing happened

week 3 - 120+

week 4 - 139 (almost got there)

week 5 - 140+

then i was able to hold 140+ for a while

then hit a few 160's

then hit a 200 mile week (due to nicer weather)

then back to 150+ for a while

again remember that i normally ran 10-11 times per week (so during all those high mileage weeks (except for the 200 mile week) i always took several 1/2 days off where needed.

the only issues i had after getting the body used to 140 was had some Achilles pain during the 200 mile week (trying to hard to get to that number didn't listen to my body - that almost became serious, but after about 3 days it passed).

i did have tightness in my groin that i didn't really pay much attention to - by Winter it became a problem...it didn't stop me, but i sure wish i had paid it more attention and learned how to release those muscles. Now i know how.

Jerry, did you pr after all that?

yes

how long is "a while" in reference holding 140+ weeks?

Did you get to a place where your legs did not ache much from the mileage or was it that you sort of got used to different indications of fatigue so they didnt bother as much?

I am setting out each day on a different 12-17 mile loop and once I get comfortable with 90-100 mpw in singles, I might add in some doubles to get higher, how does that sound to you?

Previous Weeks - 120.33, 141.10

Week 3: 12/14 - 12/20

Monday - 7.12 @ 8:27 / 11.00 @ 8:00 w/ 5 light strides (Treadmill)

Tuesday - 6.06 @ 8:31 w/ 5 hill sprints

Wednesday - OFF

Thursday - 7.28 @ 8:17 / 11.37 @ 7:52 w/ 6 light strides

Friday - 9.11 @ 8:12 w/ 12 hill sprints and 2 downhill strides / 12.02 @ 7:13 w/ 30 min @ Tempo effort (avg 6:05) + jog to hill + 4x60 sec hills hard w/ 3 min easy rest (6 mi @ 6:19)

Saturday - OFF

Sunday - 11.36 @ 8:03 / 7.26 @8:16

Total - 82.58 miles

Avg - 114.67 mpw

(Treadmill is set to 2% incline)

A pretty rough week (aka forced down week), I had to deal with my foot for the first 5 days and then messed up my knee by doing the tempo on a messed up foot (was gonna do a regular tempo, but was "forced" to do a broken one to adjust my shoe so my foot would cramp less). I think I'm in the clear now, I ran today (Monday) and my knee is sore, but it isn't painful. Moral of this week? Don't tie your shoes too tight. I'm glad I let my ego go and took the time off because now I feel ready for this next week.

happenstance - thanks, looks like you're doing well

jerrry - thanks, it is hard to take time off, but I'm glad I did. Don't take this the wrong way, but it makes me feel better to see someone else had setbacks too. They're not sexy, but as long as you come back, it doesn't seem to matter much.

Dec. 20 - Dec. 26

Dec. 20 | 6.89 miles. Fatigued after yesterday's 22-miler. Thinking of capping my runs at 17-18 miles until stronger.

Dec. 21 | 17 miles. 90-120 minutes is starting to feel more normal.

Dec. 22 | 16 miles. A struggle at the end but minimal soreness afterwards

Dec. 23. | 11 miles. Felt like a recovery day. Good sign of adaption.

Dec. 24 | 0 miles. Tons of Christmas catch-up to play.

Dec. 25 | 0 miles. Christmas with family and then stuffed to the gills with food.

Dec. 26 | 8 miles + Strength. Paying for my indulgence.

Dec. 27 | 14 miles. Moments of rhythm but still working through Christmas muck.

Total: 72.89 miles

Summary: Lackluster Christmas week. Kicked myself for logging 2 zero days but in the scheme of things, I prioritized last-minute holiday prep and it was what was needed. Went pretty hard on the sweets train so still coming around from the funk of the holidays. Yesterday's 14 miles felt bulky but good to get back.

I aim to run 5000 miles in 2021.

I run a few 50k, 100k and 100-mile trail races each year and finish on the podium or just below. I am a responder to volume but as I look over past logs, I realize I have not truly put together a full year of consistent 100+ mile weeks.

My intention for this Winter is a trial of miles: get to where 12-15 miles each morning feels baseline. Then I will gradually pepper in PM shakeout runs of 45 minutes - eventually converting 1-2 of those into quality later next year.

As a result of having performed the bulk of my training on trail, I have developed good technical skills over challenging terrain. On a good weather day, over a flatter, technical single track course, I have maintained 8:30-8:45min miles for 100k. I think that, by adapting properly to the high mileage test, I can bring that "ultra cruising speed" to sub-8s. This would bode well for race results in my region, not to mention it sounds like a really fun challenge. More-so than race results, for me, the allure comes primarily from the prospect of building the capacity to bang out big miles at faster paces while remaining relaxed and aerobic. This specific attribute of high mileage has always held the most allure for me when I have studied methodology.

Adidas free me - how's training gone over the holidays? what is your tentative plan for next year?

happenstance2: Do you happen to have any good reading material for a 50mi, 100k or 100mi race? My brother keeps asking me questions about training for one, but I have not the slightest clue on how to plan one out.

npurdy1112 - On the one hand, it depends a lot on their fitness starting point. On the other, it doesn't. I would be remiss if I didn't say that training for 100k and up is still - in a lot of ways - the Wild West. I recommend Jason Koop's book, "Training Essentials for Ultrarunning". Koop does a good job of cutting out the BS that you get in a lot of ultra literature.

https://www.amazon.com/Training-Essentials-Ultrarunning-Ultramarathon-Performance/dp/1937715450

2 main structural points: 1) Like many other methodologies for shorter distances, a proper ultra training plan goes from least-specific to race-specific in its periodization. But because race-specific is over-distance aerobic running, your "competition phase" is typically what a 5k runner's summers look like (+ back-to-back long runs); just lots of volume with strides sprinkled in. AND 2) consistent mileage is the single greatest indicator of ultra success.

Like many other methodologies, there is a general consensus between leading ultra coaches that you go from least-specific to race-specific training in your periodization. Koop suggests an ultra runner spend the first period of time, as strange as it sounds, on VO2max interval training, then move into Lactic Threshold or Steady State runs, then move into big endurance/aerobic runs before your taper (light sharpening included there). Its more nuanced than this, but this is the general flow.

While this was not my intention in contributing to this thread, my work is as a distance coach. I train trail runners for ultra distance events if you want to send your brother my way just to dialogue through email and not LetsRun. My work email is:

nathan@theendurancecollective.com

While I have provided a reference and laid out a general structure, what I could give your brother after talking with him about his history is what he can bake into each of these periods of training to make his work hyper-specific to the exact event he intends to race. If he is doing a road 100k, the training will look vastly different than if he is running say, the Mikwok 100k with its buffed out rolling single track and 11.2k elevation gain.

Hope this has helped get the ball rolling!

*Miwok 100k

https://miwok100k.com

well, after a summer of building i ave'ed 5 months or about 20 weeks at 149 miles....which was a huge amount of running for me. and that slowly came down as Winter approached. i struggle running in the cold because i drop the doubles 2) and have days where i just can't do it (ice, cold and wind).

but regarding the soreness: i spent a long time building up to that level (with mini experiments). These latest several years. So once i started trying to run 140 miles in a week (20 a day) i wasn't really having any leg soreness - outside of just normal body tiredness. I think hard workouts create more leg soreness than long runs for me. and my daily mileage wasn't 20 each day since i took a half day of every 2-3 days. It was more like 24, 14, 22, etc. i think that variability is important - even though at the time it wasn't planned.

I think on the secrets of running high mileage is not to try too hard to do it. Meaning once you set a goal of running XXX number of miles - you are already going down the wrong path...because you will now try to hit that number. Instead just say i am going to build up and see where it takes me. My limit might be 80 miles and then i have to backdown or it might be 120. When i wasn't trying so much, i was ok with taking those half days off here and there throughout the week (meaning i was listening to my body) and that made all the difference in allowing me to maintain the mileage and not get hurt.

Right now this thread by adidas me free has inspired me so, like you, i am running 11-17 each day depending on how i feel. I ran 6 times this past week and got 80 miles. I mostly ran at 7:00 pace (so i felt pretty good about that - since i had gotten into a slower habit in recent months of more like 8:00 pace). Once i start doing workouts these will likely be slower (7:30-8:00). i usually just start out easy 7:30 pace and then as i feel the pace will drop - sometimes i hit a few 6:30 miles in the middle, and i slow down toward the end - sometimes as i fatigue it could be 8:00 pace. This used to bother me, but know i just accept it as a sign that i have reached the level of my endurance - so it is a good thing.

hope addidas free me isn't injured. if you are, take the time to heal and come back wisely

Previous Weeks - 120.33, 141.10, 82.58

Week 4: 12/21 - 12/27

Monday - 7.18 @ 8:24 / 11.32 @ 8:04 w/ 6 light strides

Tuesday - 9.06 @ 8:26 w/ 12 short hill sprints and 2 downhill strides / 13.12 @ 7:35 w/ 14x400 @ 74 w/ 200 jog during the run on a track.

Wednesday - 8.21 @ 8:16 / 16.00 @ 7:41 (Treadmill)

Thursday - 8.07 @ 8:04 / 12.06 @ 7:28 (Treadmill) w/ 6 strides @ 12 mph

Friday - 13.22 @ 7:04 w/ the first 60 min a Progression Run (8.75 mi, last couple splits 6:32-18-00-5:54-56 and 4:20 @ 5:49) Felt good, but legs were a little tired / 9.20 @ 7:59 w/ 12 short hill sprints and 2 downhill strides

Saturday - 11.12 @ 8:04 / 15.15 @ 7:24 (Treadmill)

Sunday - 6.45 @ 8:20

Total - 140.18 miles (133 in 6 days)

Avg - 121.05 mpw

(Treadmill is set to 2% incline)

This week went better than expected. My knee is still noticeable, but not bad. Tuesday was a surprise, I was hoping to start around 80 and get down to just under 75 if I felt good, but I ended up coming right out at 72.x and had to slow down a bit because that was a little too hard. I decided to try front loading the week after accidentally running 9 miles Tuesday morning and may have gotten a little carried away (like doing over 26 on Saturday), but that gave me a very chill Sunday. Surprisingly, or not depending on how you look at it, my speed seems to be doing very well, but my endurance doesn't seem to be increasing a whole lot, although my average pace is coming down gradually. This next week will be another high one before I drop a bit the next week and then I'll hold mileage a little lower for indoor. Feeling tired, but good!

happenstance2 - The plan is to get used to this high mileage and hopefully PR a lot. We'll see what happens.

jerrry - still going strong!

Much appreciated! More information than I was expecting from a random letsrun thread haha. I will send him the link to the book and your e-mail. I dont know for sure but I assume their funds for coaching may not be there at the moment, they have 5 kids under 7. Thank you!

I'm impressed!

I applaud your actions. I’ve been a distance advocate for decades. My only input would be to forget about pace. I truly believe you can’t run too slow. As long as you are keeping a real running motion- you do you. Best of luck

good job! Only thing I would suggest is staying away from the downhill sprints. Seriously, the risk is way too high for the reward. If you want to work on turnover it is much safer to do so on the treadmill. (Assuming your treadmill can go fast enough)

It’s just an accident waiting to happen. and I cringe just thinking about it...Just my two cents. Keep up the good work!

Previous Weeks - 120.33, 141.10, 82.58, 140.18

Week 5: 12/28 - 1/3

Monday - 8.04 @ 8:15 / 12.10 @ 7:40 w/ 6 light strides (snowy dirt roads, not bad, but not ideal)

Tuesday - 9.18 @ 8:24 w/ 12 short hill sprints + 2 downhill strides / 14.15 @ 7:06 w/ 7 miles as a Progression Run (46:44 @ 6:41, last few miles 6:16 - 08 - 5:53 - 45) + 4x60 sec hills basically all out @ 5:10 avg on a steep hill that flattens after 45 sec. Felt good

Wednesday - 10.20 @ 8:59 (roads were BAD) / 17.07 @ 7:04 (Treadmill) felt great, 27 on the day

Thursday - 10.20 @ 8:16 / 10.06 @ 7:45 (Treadmill) w/ 6 light strides

Friday - 9.05 @ 8:28 w/ 12 short hill sprints + 2 flat strides (didn't wanna risk going down with snow) / 15.30 @ 6:43 (Treadmill) w/ 4 w/up + 5.3 @ 5:40 (starting at 5:50 and getting down to 5:30) + 6 c/d Felt good, but definitely not an easy one

Saturday - 17.10 @ 8:28 (25+ mph winds and downpouring) / 7.94 @ 7:59

Sunday - OFF

Total - 140.39 miles (in 6 days)

Avg - 124.92 mpw

(Treadmill is set to 2% incline)

Overall not a bad week, winter storms finally started hitting and some runs were slick and I used the treadmill a good amount. Had a decent amount of energy considering the volume. Decided to try frontloading again, but enough to have a day off and it was a lot easier than I was expecting. Feeling good, next week will be a down week to be safe though, not sure yet how much lower.

HRE - thanks!

vladimir - thanks, I try not to worry about it at all, except for workouts.

Kenaneeser Beckelay - I get what you're saying, but I don't think there's much to worry about on these downhill strides, they're not sprints, it's really just about the same effort as a threshold tempo going downhill and the hills I do it on aren't very steep, they're pretty gradual.

Right on. Good job!!