Scientivic studies show --> wearing a mask does not protect you

Harambe wrote:

I understand the size of a virion. However they are transmitted on liquid droplets. There are no gas-phase SARS-CoV-2 particles -- that's a physical impossibility.

Invisible things that don't exist can be transmitted in magical ways, often without having any contact with them (for example from watching the news on tv).

Do you have a paper that shows that cloth or surgical masks don't do anything? All studies I've seen show that most types of masks do significantly lower both droplets and aerosols.

You write a lot of paragraphs with no scientific support. Lots of "just so" stories. Give us some links that are boomer facebook memes.

dunes runner wrote:

Harambe wrote:

I understand the size of a virion. However they are transmitted on liquid droplets. There are no gas-phase SARS-CoV-2 particles -- that's a physical impossibility.

Invisible things that don't exist can be transmitted in magical ways, often without having any contact with them (for example from watching the news on tv).

What part of human DNA is amplified by the COVID PCR test? You refuse to answer this for me :(

Harambe wrote:

This is serious boomer Facebook crap.

So you're ageist as well as a fearmonger?

I'm not here looking to receive your respect. I'm here for the truth.

You've also created another fallacy. Nobody here said the COVID-19 virus is a gas.

Reduction of droplets directly in front of the mask can be about 2-fold; but you need to consider the entire volume that is redirected around the sides of masks....go ahead a show the study that considers the total volume transfer rather than some chump study showing masks slightly reduce droplets directly in front of mask. Plus, 2x reduction is not changing the overall viral load that significantly, so find the study that says this sort of minimal reduction does anything. Show a study showing masks drastically reduced the volume of particles coming from a breath when considering that entirety of the volume not blocked by the sides of the mask. Show them, because their lack of existence is the reason they did not recommend masks at the onset of this pandemic, it is because they do not do much of anything. Again, you are a liar.

Harambe wrote:

Do you have a paper that shows that cloth or surgical masks don't do anything? All studies I've seen show that most types of masks do significantly lower both droplets and aerosols.

So you admit you only looked at biased news sources for your information?

"Jacobs, J. L. et al. (2009) “Use of surgical face masks to reduce the incidence of the common cold among health care workers in Japan: A randomized controlled trial,” American Journal of Infection Control, Volume 37, Issue 5, 417 – 419."

"Face mask use in HCW was not demonstrated to provide benefit in terms of cold symptoms or getting colds."

"bin-Reza et al. (2012) “The use of masks and respirators to prevent transmission of influenza: a systematic review of the scientific evidence,” Influenza and Other Respiratory Viruses 6(4), 257–267."

"There were 17 eligible studies. … None of the studies established a conclusive relationship between mask/respirator use and protection against influenza infection."

"Offeddu, V. et al. (2017) “Effectiveness of Masks and Respirators Against Respiratory Infections in Healthcare Workers: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis,” Clinical Infectious Diseases, Volume 65, Issue 11, 1 December 2017, Pages 1934–1942,"

"Evidence of a protective effect of masks or respirators against verified respiratory infection (VRI) was not statistically significant".

"Long, Y. et al. (2020) “Effectiveness of N95 respirators versus surgical masks against influenza: A systematic review and meta-analysis,” J Evid Based Med. 2020; 1- 9."

"A total of six RCTs involving 9,171 participants were included. There were no statistically significant differences in preventing laboratory-confirmed influenza, laboratory-confirmed respiratory viral infections, laboratory-confirmed respiratory infection, and influenza-like illness using N95 respirators and surgical masks."

Nobody here can go against this licensed, medical doctor.

Spare a few minutes and then decide.

We had this debate in like April dude. You have a bad memory.

Most RCTs have been for inward protection. It's really hard to do an RCT for outward protection in a community setting.

It's annoying to keep slapping you guys around because you make the same dumb arguments every month.

Anyway here's some evidence that many kinds of masks work to block aerosols, which was the point I was responding to:

Harambe wrote:

It's really hard to do an RCT for outward protection in a community setting.

You are admitting defeat. You've lost the debate.

COMMUNITY SETTING is exactly what we've been talking about in this thread.

You can't just hide behind, "It's too hard!", excuse.

There's no conclusive evidence that masks work in a community setting. You are admitting this yourself.

Harambe wrote:

It's annoying to keep slapping you guys around because you make the same dumb arguments every month.

So you're an ageist, a fearmonger, and a violent person too? If you're getting annoyed, then that means you are losing the debate or failing to make any headway with your position.

Masks don't stop hundreds of customers from spreading virus particles into the air in your "community setting".

Harambe wrote:

Anyway here's some evidence that many kinds of masks work to block aerosols, which was the point I was responding to:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-72798-7

"Our results clearly indicate that wearing surgical masks or unvented KN95 respirators reduce the outward particle emission rates by 90% and 74% on average during speaking and coughing, respectively, compared to wearing no mask."

Your study is garbage. We're not specifically targeting coughing or talking. The doctor in my video is talking about the passage of total viral particles.

I ALREADY MENTIONED coughing and sneezing in an earlier post. Did you even bother to read what I wrote?

You've lost the debate.

Your study says, "Redirected expiratory airflow, involving exhaled air moving up past the nose or out the side of the mask, were not measured here but should be considered in future work."

THE SCIENTISTS DIDN'T EVEN TEST THE AIRFLOW THROUGH THE SIDES OF THE MASK!!!!!

Did you even read your own study that you are presenting as "evidence"?

Harambe was defeated today. We did it, guys. We slayed the dragon.

It's supposed to save other people you muppet. Those unselfish people are protecting you. Not that it's worth it.

Harambe wrote:

LOL, I get annoyed arguing with people with below-average reasoning skills.

You must be extremely annoyed at yourself.

No wonder you're suffering from such uncontrollable rage and inability to understand simple truths.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

It's supposed to save other people you muppet. Those unselfish people are protecting you. Not that it's worth it.

If you want to protect me and others, you can take off those filthy diapers from your faces.

Mondo Hondo wrote:

Your whole premise on masks is flawed and lacking in common sense. Your reply was stupid and misinformed. Remember that when you got dropped on your head, the ground and your head fell toward each other simultaneously.

--

War is peace

Freedom is slavery

Ignorance is strength -- George Orwell

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Truth is a lie -- lacking in common sense

Freedom is stupid and misinformed

Getting dropped on your head is peacefulness

--

Good slave, obey your masters, you have learned your lessons quite well.

I posted this on the pro-mask thread:

So let me get this straight: mask technology has been around for centuries, over the course of which we have had respiratory pandemics resulting in the deaths of millions. YET, it hasn't been until 2020 that this "...profoundly important pillar of pandemic control" has FINALLY been revealed as conferring benefit to societies who employ them? What the actual FCKK?!?

These genius scientists have only been able to divine this revelation after MILLIONS OF DEATHS OVER THE LAST CENTURY ALONE. Maybe they were too busy splitting the atom and mapping the human genome? Or maybe trying to prove whether it is better to put the toilet paper in the holder with the paper hanging outside or in?

Any other brilliant revelations? Should I wear a crucifix when I sleep to ward off vampires?

This is what happens when academia for over half a century is based on beliefs and political relativism rather than objective and skeptical inquiry.

Those are more lies because I never said any such thing.

So you can apply that quotation to yourself.

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As to who's behind what, try doing some research into that for yourself.

Mounty Pylon wrote:

huh what wrote:

Pointless sacrifice isn't noble, it's stupid.

Plus, I can infer from this that you never drive a car, since doing so surely puts others at more risk than if you never drove at all.

I have no strong opinion about the masks.

What I cannot understand for the life of me is:

Why are some people so strongly opinionated against the masks?

What is it that could make someone have such a strong opinion about the masks?

The right-wing media (talk radio, Fox News, etc) has convinced people that COVID and masks are some sort of liberal conspiracy to hurt Donald Trump.

A few things none of the morans will have a rational response to:

1) Harambe is a classic martyr-complex SJW who thinks he is morally superior to you because of his do-gooder goals, which he forms through the cognitive bias of wanting whatever he believes to be worthy of crusading for so it can make him feel good.

2) Science has been going on a very long time, and contains absolutely no dogma whatsoever. Every last shred of it is subject to, and must welcome, the most intense skepticism and scrutiny or stand as a corruption of the scientific method. Decades, even centuries of science never resulted in any consensus that mask-wearing affected the spread of cold or flu viruses. Coronaviruses are cold viruses. "The science" did not suddenly get replaced by new science from the past few months, no matter how many cherry-picked appeals to authority one makes.

3) you didn't go around slobbering on people in public, and a mask does nothing to stop you from doing what you already weren't doing. Aerosols go right through masks and if you go trying to cobble together theories, studies, magic thinking that maybe they catch some of the aerosols, you're jaginoff at the world, just stop.

4) if you're going around in public with a mask on and nobody within 50 feet of you, better hope you're not in any photos, because you're gonna be laughed at for the rest of your life when this all ends. Worst combo of insanity and vanity imaginable.