I've run in nothing but racing flats for two months and...

I know a guy who does all his runs in racing flats. Easy, hard, dry trail, road, no matter what he wears the same pair of flats. He says higher cushion hurts his knees.

I still mix in a lot of training in shoes like the adidas Takumi Sen.

https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=678078#678166

https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=676383

https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=702854

I haven’t gone all the way to flats but have been doing most of my easy runs in faster shoes recently (endorphin speed, peg turbo 2, tc elite) and have really only been putting in clunkers for really easy recovery days 1 or 2 times ever 10 days. Similar experience, feel much healthier right now than when I was rocking hokas and infinity reacts for 80% of my miles.

This is like the classic barefoot running argument, that says that having more cushioned shoes makes you hit the ground harder, so the force through your legs is actually greater than in less cushioned shoes.

If what you have already is working for you, then great, but you want to test out some other more minimalist shoes - I expect that a low-cushioning training shoe might last longer than a racing flat, but would have a similar benefit for you

Running and wearing shoes does not make someone healthy. Food and exercise does.

Adios are also not flats.

bare wrote:

This is like the classic barefoot running argument, that says that having more cushioned shoes makes you hit the ground harder, so the force through your legs is actually greater than in less cushioned shoes

If what you have already is working for you, then great, but you want to test out some other more minimalist shoes - I expect that a low-cushioning training shoe might last longer than a racing flat, but would have a similar benefit for you

I've been in almost nothing but racing shoes for over 25 years now. Cushioning really wrecks my knees but that's not what I mean to post about. I want to disagree with your comment about a low cushioned training shoe lasting longer than a racing flat. I have found that racing flats will last almost forever if they aren't "cushioned" ones. That seems totally logical because when we say most modern shoes are worn out we generally mean the mid sole is compressed and the cushioning is worn out. Racing flats have almost no cushioning, or many didn't until very recently so there's not much to wear out. You can use them until there are holes in the outer sole.

Interesting about Bob Kennedy. I guess I'm too young to know that he did most of his running in flats, but I do recall an interview with him where he claimed to never have been injured, and to still be running injury free into his 40's.

And fair, I guess the Adios are not technically "flats". But they are skimpy racing shoes with A LOT of wear (I also have used them as casual wear walking and hiking shoes for 3 years). Coming from the Bondi's they feel like socks.

@ HRE beyond injury prevention and feel, do you feel you have become a better runner by training in flats?

altitude hermit wrote:

Interesting about Bob Kennedy. I guess I'm too young to know that he did most of his running in flats, but I do recall an interview with him where he claimed to never have been injured, and to still be running injury free into his 40's.

And fair, I guess the Adios are not technically "flats". But they are skimpy racing shoes with A LOT of wear (I also have used them as casual wear walking and hiking shoes for 3 years). Coming from the Bondi's they feel like socks.

@ HRE beyond injury prevention and feel, do you feel you have become a better runner by training in flats?

Bob lied. He was injured and he hardly ran at all from 34 until he was over 40.

I used to do really well in flats other less structured shoes like nike free. They are great for most of my body. But around 2 years ago my feet started to go, so I can't wear them anymore, besides on workout days.

now it's mostly stuff like Pegausus.

Yeah the minimalist movement from about 15 years ago proved that we didn't nor did many people want those bulky stability shoes.

There were a lot of LRers talking about doing all their runs in racing flats back then.

I wore the Nike Elite, then Elite Classic for nearly ten years in the late-70s to late-80s. I'd race in the Mariah. No injuries until I started to wear real trainers in the following years.

I'm certainly not a better runner now for doing anything but I am able to do a bit of something now in flats that's more than can do in conventional shoes. I'm old enough to have spent most of the first twenty years of my career in shoes like the Tiger Boston and Cortez/Corsair, adidas Gazelle, etc. I never had any troubles and got all my bests in those kinds of shoes. By the time I hit forty those shoes were gone and what was on the market were more modern "sophisticated" shoes. I started having lots of knee and PF troubles. I was pretty close to bagging running All of that went away when I switched to doing all my runs in racing shoes so yeah, the switch made me a much better runner for that stage of my life.

I know it's not for everyone but it works well for some. I wrote an article about this for Marathon and Beyond and got phone calls and e-mails from people with stories of switching after reading the article and how much better their running was. No one wrote to say the switch had wrecked them but maybe they just didn't want to write. I do think it's sad that the sorts of shoes that worked so well for some of us are gone from the market now.

I think it comes down to the weight of the shoes more than the cushioning, which is why the carbon-plated racing shoes are working for a lot of people as daily trainers.

shoe weight matters wrote:

I think it comes down to the weight of the shoes more than the cushioning, which is why the carbon-plated racing shoes are working for a lot of people as daily trainers.

Maybe for some people this is true. It has never been the case for me. It's cushioning more than weight that I have trouble with.

I've had this experience about 15 years ago. Battled pretty painful IT band tendonitis my freshman year of college. I took a month off, and every time I ran more than a mile my IT band above my knee would hurt sharply. One day I was late for practice (still showing up to cross train), and had racing flats on because I had been wearing them casually that day. I jogged to practice, and the IT band didn't hurt. I ran a few more laps around the track and ran 3 miles that day, pain free. Ramped my mileage up over the next few days with no pain, all while wearing racing flats.

I wore them a lot, but then also started rotating in more cushioned shoes (like the original Nike Lunar Trainer, loved that shoe). But I stopped wearing any shoes with medial support (no more Asics 2000 series or Brooks Adrenaline GTS). I now just buy whatever shoes are on sale that are neutral, and rotate about three different pairs that have different cushion levels. Seems to work!

HRE, can you send me that article? I have always wanted to read it but I could never find it.

That's going to take some looking. It may have gone down in a computer crash, or maybe not. I will look. Keep this thread handy for a day or two so I don't forget.

switching to minimalism and training exclusively in flats ended foot and ankle problems for me. The downside is I can't run in the new fangled high drop carbon spring shoes without issue.

In the mid-80s I was just out of college and having PF issues that lasted over a year. Nothing I found, including custom orthotics, worked. Not having a lot of money and needing shoes, I started running in my race flats (Air Mariah). Within a week all pain was gone and I was able to ramp up weekly mileage and intensity.

Career picked up and I was an occasional runner for a couple of decades. In my mid-40s I was able to become more competitive (with myself and others) and again ramped up mileage and intensity- and began having foot problems again. I went back to my local store and got a pair of Nike Streak race shoes and again the pain went away.

Currently 5’6”, 135 lbs, age 60, with a shorter stride length than most. As long as I’m in racing flats I have no problems.

My take is not the weight of the shoe but the flexibility. The foot has 26 joints that need to articulate or that motion moves up to knees and hips. I have logged a few miles in the Vapors to see what they are all about. I would become injured wearing those and am watching to see if others begin to have issues.