Minimalist, what was your experience?

Best thing I ever did and the Prs are showing it.

Did it over the course of last year and the experience has been very positive. I did develop a stress fracture to a metatarsal (?), but am not sure it was due to the light weight shoes as much as bad luck running over rocks. I missed a few weeks (3), but otherwise it's been pretty easy to maintain 80 mile weeks.

funny how all these flats people get metatarsal stress fractures, but it never has anything to do with the flats. But also it makes one wonder why they don't build a training shoe with say 22:12 heel/forefoot cushioning (same drop as a flat, same forefoot as a trainer)

What's the advantage of running 80 miles a week on the pavement in flats anyway ? Why not run speed sessions (including warmup/cooldown) in flats for about 20mpw, and do everything else in trainers ? Are the benefits of wearing flats really a volume effect ? If the primary effect is that it strengthens the foot, then it would seem that it isn't. I don't think the flats crowd are even prepared to seriously ask these questions, let alone answer. For the most part, they'd rather spew specious dogma.

I've made the switch and wear mostly the Nike Streak XC. I tried the Nike Skylons ~2 weeks ago ... took them out for a couple of spins around the block - I wear them to the grocery store now - an expensive mistake.

I have chronic bursitis in my right heel - the flats seem to help the condition considerably. The Streak XC also has a minimal heel counter, which I like - no rubbing, no restriction.

The drawbacks - I do feel that the flats have a bit less "cush" than I prefer, but I have been using some thin insoles which seem to help. The other similar problem that I have are rocks that occcasionally poke through the thin soles.

You don't seem to like me much. First off, who are all the people getting metatarsal fractures, other than myself that have posted here? I don't recall saying I ran 80 miles per week on pavement, either. As for saying my fracture was a result of the footwear, I just cannot be sure. I'd run some 4,300 miles in flats prior to gaining this injury, including two marathons in the last year (the first being a PR). Seems to me it was more like bad luck.

I prefer using racers because it feels so much more natural than running in heavy trainers. Simple as that. Go put on a pair of your trainers after running in flats for sometime and you'll question why you believed all of the dogma concerning the training flat. It's easy for you to say that the flats crowd are not prepared to ask these questions, however, unless you are willing to participate in the debate by trying the experiment, one cannot reflect too much into your comment, it just seems overly nasty.

You don't seem to like me much.

Not true, you're taking this way too personally. This has more to do with the flats crowd than it does you in particular.

First off, who are all the people getting metatarsal fractures, other than myself that have posted here?

Can't name them off the top of my head, just observed that a number of posters on different forums have experienced either tarsal fractures or other forefoot injuries related to inadequate forefoot cushioning.

I don't recall saying I ran 80 miles per week on pavement, either.

Most people are stuck with pavement. If you have a soft surface, I agree that you probably need less cushioning from the shoe.

As for saying my fracture was a result of the footwear, I just cannot be sure. I'd run some 4,300 miles in flats prior to gaining this injury, including two marathons in the last year (the first being a PR). Seems to me it was more like bad luck.

Stress fractures are chronic stress injuries. They are caused by overuse over a period of time. They are not caused by "bad luck". You have to be doing (or overdoing) something day after day to get a stress fracture (for example, running with inadequate cushioning)

BTW, I don't think running PRs plost-flats in itself proves a whole lot. You do an experiment, and the control group will also run PRs. A good experiment would be control group (trainers only) versus speedwork in flats group versus flats group. Looking at one data point from one group in isolation proves nothing.

Go put on a pair of your trainers after running in flats for sometime and you'll question why you believed all of the dogma concerning the training flat.

I do. I run at least 20mpw in flats (all speedwork and treadmill runs)

unless you are willing to participate in the debate by trying the experiment,

That's silly. That's like saying that I can't join the debate unless I'm on your side. Sorry, I'm not willing to break my tarsals. I'll leave it to you flats guys to break yours instead, I prefer to learn from the mistakes of others.

I made the switch about two months ago. Started with some light weight trainers for the first month, and then progressed to flats on the next month.

Currently, I'm in my second week out with a metatarsal fracture.

Do you know what the midsole heights on the Streak XC are? How does that shoe compare with the H Streets? Thanks.

The drawbacks - I do feel that the flats have a bit less "cush" than I prefer,

The streak XC is one of the leanest flats around. You may want to look at the tiger paw for a cushier, yet simple (and inexpensive), racing flat.

I found that calves hurt initially, but soon (a month) got over the adjustment. Also, ball-heel-ball foot strike reduces stress on calves considerably.

I'll bite: what flats are all of you wearing?

elflord wrote:

funny how all these flats people get metatarsal stress fractures, but it never has anything to do with the flats.

"All these flats people"?

How many people have reported a metatarsal stress fracture while training in flats besides Dylan Moffet?

What's the advantage of running 80 miles a week on the pavement in flats anyway ? Why not run speed sessions (including warmup/cooldown) in flats for about 20mpw, and do everything else in trainers ? Are the benefits of wearing flats really a volume effect ?

The idea is that running in minimalist shoes helps you maintain a more natural footstrike and form which is more efficient and better at cushioning your feet. The vast majority of "flats people" I've seen here have reported fewer injuries from training in flats, not more.

Where are "all these" minimalists with injury? One guy said he got hurt, and likely because of a rock.

eldrick,

why would your foot not be able to run a few hours per week?

Not sure about the midsole height ... they look beefier than they feel. They are very flexible.Does anyone know what type of heel counter the Tiger Paw has? A hard plastic one would bring me to tears.

Pose22 wrote:

Do you know what the midsole heights on the Streak XC are? How does that shoe compare with the H Streets? Thanks.

NOrunner wrote:

Best thing I ever did and the Prs are showing it.

I second this! I ran some phenomenal road PRs last fall (17:51 for 5K, 36:22 for 10K, and 55:46 for 15K). I dropped my 5K from 18:29 to 17:51, and last fall was the first time I've ever stayed healthy long enough to race further than 5K. I'm a woman, as well, and now have aspirations of trying to qualify for the 2008 Olympic Marathon Trials. This is the healthiest and most consistent training I've EVER done the past year! The foot and leg soreness go away after a few weeks/months. One day I remember stepping out of bed and thinking "hey, my legs/feet aren't as sore!" I think the best time to transition is when you're coming back from a layoff or during an off-period when you're not training long/hard. I run on a variety of surfaces so I don't subject my feet/legs to the same stress every day. I spent the first 6 months in the Onitsuka Ultimate 81's, and since June I've been in the Puma H Streets. I also run at least 10% of my weekly mileage barefoot on grass. I believe this is a key to preventing injuries. Any time you have any soreness/tightness (legs, arches, Achilles), slip off your shoes and run barefoot!

Regarding metatarsal stress fractures.... this is quite strange if people are having an increased prevalence of foot injuries! I actually had MORE foot and leg problems with trainers/orthotics (3 metatarsal stress fractures, 4 femoral stress fractures) than I've had with flats (none!). I think a lot of it has to do with keeping your feet relaxed, gradually building your strength and mileage/intensity, and training on a variety of surfaces. You learn to land "lightly" and have a better sense of control. I spent last summer running 70+ miles/week on some of the rockiest crap I've ever been on up in Boulder, CO. Of course, with my history of bone injuries I was very nervous about it, but I felt great. I did it all in the Puma H Streets, and sometimes I even removed the insole to get a better "feel." I trained on a different trail every day, and ultimately I believe it helped increase my foot strength, awareness, and efficiency. It's like you "crave" the sensory feedback you get from the ground.

Where are "all these" minimalists with injury?

We've already had another one post in this thread. I just see them pop up fairly frequently. Usually with tarsal stress fractures and neuromas.

One guy said he got hurt, and likely because of a rock

He got a stress fracture "because of a rock" ??? Yeah, right.

Eldrick,

Do a survey and see who are more likely to have a foot/leg injury.

How many people have reported a metatarsal stress fracture while training in flats besides Dylan Moffet?

I've seen several. In fact another one in this thread already.

The idea is that running in minimalist shoes helps you maintain a more natural footstrike and form which is more efficient and better at cushioning your feet.

Nice idea, but wouldn't a low heel do this without removing the forefoot cushioning ? What's the advantage to having less forefoot cushioning ? What's "natural" about running 80 miles a week, almost barefoot on pavement anyway ?