Do elite train in flats?

I've seen pics of Gebre training in Adidas Competition-racing flat.

No. Usually just guys that think they are elite.

dont run in flats unless you are working out or racing. its just stupid. the shoe isnt made for that purpose and neither is your foot. be smart.

Not that I don't believe you but can you post where you found those pics?

Someone posted a series of pics of Tergat and his training group, pre-Olympics, training in the hills of Kenya. All the guys (including Mr Tergat), were in their big, bulky trainers.

Now of course the "flats are the way to go" crowd will argue: 'they get PAID to wear those shoes, and that is why they do it.' But I have two comments about that:

1) the pics I reference above, were, as I said, in the hills of Kenya, and there wasn't a lot of press around. I don't think Tergat was too worried about advertising his companies' bulky trainers to the masses in such a situation. I am sure he could wear flats if he wanted to out there (as long as he was wearing the right brand).

2) Whatever the motivation for wearing the bulky trainers that we often see the elites wearing is(such as Tergat), clearly it is not hurting them, because I have not seen these people getting a rash of injuries in them

I think it is safe to say some elite train in conventional training shoes, just as some train in racing flats. One could counter some of the pictures of certain Kenyans in trainers with many accounts of Japanese marathoners who only wear flats. I presume the Kenyan depth for men is rivalled only by the Japanese depth for women. It is also safe to assume that many elites wear racing shoes for speed workouts and/or track workouts.

in the "laufen with haile" book, there are also pics of Woku Bikile(?) M.Wolde wearing adidas taper and comp.

Mosst elites outside of Japan train in regular training shoes and get hurt like everyone else. They, like the shoe companies, believe in the technology -- which is a big mistake.

In the future, I hope to be able to speak with some of the federation coaches about this matter. I did get get a chance to speak with one world champion sprinter's coach, whose athlete was suffering from an achilles injury that I attributed to their wearing of the Shox.

And I know that Lorraine Moller is a minimalist.

But again, as with any peformance enhancer, those with the most to gain will see the biggest gains in performance. I've said before, that guys like El Guerrouj and Bekele may do their easy stuff in Pegs and Spans, but wouldn't have too much to be gained from running in flats as far as efficiency, because they do miles of drills everyday. Their biggest gains would be in injury prevention. Keep in mind that the reason we didn't see Bekele race in the summer of 2002 was because his achilles was down.

And there is an excellent article in this month's RunningTimes comparing the footstrikes of Noguchi and Drossing. The author found that Noguchi was very efficient, landing under her center of gravity, while Drossin was far less efficient, landing infront of herself, essentially braking with every footstrike. The difference is Noguchi trains in her Japanese Asics, and Drossin in the Trabuco.

Most of the advice about running on this board is sound but this whole bit about training in flats is just a crock. Sure being in $150 Trance or Kayano is not necessary and may even hurt you in the long run but suggesting you run in flats is swinging too much in the other direction.

Guys posting here saying they train 100-120 miles a week in flats without injury ARE LYING TO YOU PEOPLE. They want nothing more than to injure as many competitors as possible. And don't tell me about Geb or even PR. Last I checked there aren't too many world champions posting on this message board.

What makes you think just because someone is an elite runner they understand biomechanics? I've trained with elite runners for the past 8 years and the majority buy into the same BS that everyone else does, that more cushioning and stability is somehow better. Without any solid information on why! There is no dought in my mind that elites from other countries gain an advantage by not growing up wearing bulky trainers. It is easy to understand the dynamics when you look at some of the research done in the early 80s and 90s. Besides myself I don't know any elite that does all of there mileage in shoes with 1 inch heel or less. However, most elite runners do run anywhere from 10 to 20miles a week in flats and spikes for workouts. It is a very confusing concept for people to grasp becausing there is some much ambigious info out there. One really has to spend some time analizing there biomechanics and looking at what will best suit them in the short-term as well as in the longterm. Too many people would just rather leave it up to the shoe companies to tell them what's best.

I'd like to to know your background. Are you a biomechanics expert, physical therapist, elite runner/coach, or someone who has done exhaustive studies on this subject?

AFAIK, you're a college kid who works at a shoe store. I like your theories, but you need to stop selling it as gospel until you have some evidence to back it up.

8" wrote:

Most of the advice about running on this board is sound but this whole bit about training in flats is just a crock. Sure being in $150 Trance or Kayano is not necessary and may even hurt you in the long run but suggesting you run in flats is swinging too much in the other direction.

Guys posting here saying they train 100-120 miles a week in flats without injury ARE LYING TO YOU PEOPLE. They want nothing more than to injure as many competitors as possible. And don't tell me about Geb or even PR. Last I checked there aren't too many world champions posting on this message board.

The empire of Japan.

And I personally know people running up to 150mi in a week that run exclusively in flats, like the H Street. Personal friends of mine.

8" wrote:

Guys posting here saying they train 100-120 miles a week in flats without injury ARE LYING TO YOU PEOPLE.

I'm a guy posting here, and I am saying that I train 100-120 miles per week (have done some in the 140s) in flats (H Streets) without injury (yet) and I'm NOT lying!

And there is an excellent article in this month's RunningTimes comparing the footstrikes of Noguchi and Drossing. The author found that Noguchi was very efficient, landing under her center of gravity, while Drossin was far less efficient, landing infront of herself, essentially braking with every footstrike. The difference is Noguchi trains in her Japanese Asics, and Drossin in the Trabuco.

So let me get this right...the only reason Drossin is less efficient is because of her shoes???

c'mon now Trackhead...this is a stretch. And I think most would be rather happy with Drossin inefficient "record"...

AR holder at alomst every long distance

Silver XC World Medal

Bronze Olympic Medal

Not too shabby.

My educational background -- BA in Spanish and History. I know. I took some exercise phys courses and did fine, but that was it.

I suppose you could call this learn by doing. Rather much like Lydiard, who I believe never went further than the sixth grade.

I've reead the studies, began as a non-believer myself, and suffered a unrelated injury while in normal shoes. So I switched to improve my racing and my overall injury resistance. And my running's never been smoother.

Would you like to hear someone with degrees in the field comment on this? On Thurs. I believe, I'll see my Podiatrist friend, who held a practice for 35 years, and who agrees with me wholeheartedly.

Certainly not too shabby -- I'm a huge Deena fan and was incedibly excited to see her finish with a medal -- well deserved.

But I also know that normal high heeled running shoes encourage over extension and inhibit efficency. Check out the cover of just about any RRS order form for an exaggerated pic -- a guy out there just smashing into his heel while extended away from his center of gravity.

Read the article -- it is absolutley about the shoes. Train in what you race in and you will be most prepared. High heels do no serious runner any good -- coincidentally enough, that was one of the conclusions reached at Lydiard's final clinic in SF on Sunday.

Japan is ahead of the gaem there -- the Kayano, the 2100, in Japan those are "Fun-Runner shoes", while the Performance shoes are everything from modified track spikes to racing flats to a shoe like the DS-Trainer (their heaviest shoe).

I most certainly do believe that wearing a shoe that promotes an efficient foot strike would help anyone who wants to run more efficiently. I never said that someone who does most of there training in a Higher heeled cushion/stability shoe could not run fast. I personally have been pleased with the times I have acheived over the past 13 years of competing, and yes I've only begun to train exclusively in flats for the past four months. Everyone can benefit from having a natural biomechanical gait cycle. Having a strong healthy lower leg should be a goal of everyone not just an elite runner.

It's always a bit dissapointing to see the inevitable "my way is the only way" line of thinking that people fall into. Whether it's pro-flats, pro-trainers, pro-orthotics, anti-orthotics, etc. Me, I used to train in flats, got injured all the time. Moved into trainers, still got injured. Ended up in orthotics, with trainers, no more injuries. Tried orthotics in flats, got injured again. Back to the trainers with orthotics, no injuries......for quite awhile. Now I've got a bit of achilles tendonitis. So am I supposed to think that the orthotics and/or the trainers caused the tendonitis? I happen to think I probably overtrained and ended up with an overuse injury. Can we all agree on that idea-- that injuries do happen occasionally if your legs are taking 80-100 miles of pounding every week?

Find what works for you. Experiment as much as necessary and find the right combination. But enough with the "trainers are right for everyone and you should institutionalized if you don't believe it" or "Geb trains in flats, so trainers should be outlawed" lines of thinking.

trackhead, this is slightly off topic, but what the heck, it is Letsrun. What do you think about the dorsiflexion and distance running? How does this relate to flats?