Tribute to 02:20 Marathon

Eat more Tofu wrote:

Yes, your speed only dropped a little bit but the volume was cut 1/2 to 2/3. If you did the prescribed 15-20, you would have had to run in the 80s, which is slower than the prescribed pace.

If the original workout was only 7x400m, he would have prescribed a MUCH faster pace. I don't see why Jan thinks this was a good workout and as another poster said, it was crazy to prescribe the 400s and LT work when you're coming back from injury. Having to drastically cut down the volume shows that, but Jan won't understand.

Why 15-20x400 @75-76 is crazy workout? I ran after recovery from injury 9 days easy +31h biking, Is it not enough easy days?

Because you're coming back from injury. Cycling is good exercise but it's much different than running. Before Tuesday, when was the last time you ran a hard and extensive running workout?

And it's not so much the number of easy days, but making sure you ease into it. Haven't you been injured a couple of times over the last few months? You would have been better off with some easier 400s with fewer repetitions to get your "running legs" back a bit.

You were injured from overtraining, took some time, and are jumping right into the deep end again. Maybe it will work, but it doesn't seem like the right way to do things.

Eat more Tofu wrote:

The Wizard JS wrote:

How did you think now?

I prescribed 15-20 x 400s at 75-76 sec and he thougt he ran 400s but in fact it was 424 m and then equivalent pace of 70.8-71.7 sec

Your math is off. He ran an extra 24m, which doesn’t take away nearly 7s. He said his average was 73.3 with the converted distance. So about 2s fast but only ran seven intervals out of 15-20. Two seconds too fast shouldn’t hurt him that much. But it was a crazy workout to begin with since he’s coming off injury.

I hope he doesn’t get hurt again.

My math is never off! Read my comment again and you understand I had my described workout pace as a starting point in my comment.

The Wizard JS wrote:

Eat more Tofu wrote:

Your math is off. He ran an extra 24m, which doesn’t take away nearly 7s. He said his average was 73.3 with the converted distance. So about 2s fast but only ran seven intervals out of 15-20. Two seconds too fast shouldn’t hurt him that much. But it was a crazy workout to begin with since he’s coming off injury.

I hope he doesn’t get hurt again.

My math is never off! Read my comment again and you understand I had my described workout pace as a starting point in my comment.

Your math is always off when you predict what your runners can achieve.

This is a very interesting thread. Not because of the coach but because the athlete is discovering his potential and the flawed coaching he is getting.

Your math was off.

I'll be interested to see how your latest project turns out. 15-20x400m his first week back was moronic.

Eat more Tofu wrote:

Because you're coming back from injury. Cycling is good exercise but it's much different than running. Before Tuesday, when was the last time you ran a hard and extensive running workout?

And it's not so much the number of easy days, but making sure you ease into it. Haven't you been injured a couple of times over the last few months? You would have been better off with some easier 400s with fewer repetitions to get your "running legs" back a bit.

You were injured from overtraining, took some time, and are jumping right into the deep end again. Maybe it will work, but it doesn't seem like the right way to do things.

A workout now at 75-76 sec at 15-20 reps shoudn`t bee a hard "comeback" workout

for Canefis now . If it , I say if here, shows that the pace according to my "Rubber band principle" shows to be a little too fast out from his heartrate I just slow it down by a couple of seconds.

Always this calibration adapted to the individual runner for perfect paces.

And it`s absolutely not correct to say he was light injured from overtraining.......other reasons we have already gone through here.

BOHlCA wrote:

The Wizard JS wrote:

My math is never off! Read my comment again and you understand I had my described workout pace as a starting point in my comment.

Your math is always off when you predict what your runners can achieve.

This is a very interesting thread. Not because of the coach but because the athlete is discovering his potential and the flawed coaching he is getting.

And then you of course deliberately opt out that Canefis just did a measuring mistake .

Canefis, you mentioned heavy legs.

Even with the 424 m you weren't' going that fast.

Maybe Eat more Tofu has a point? Maybe less reps? Maybe a few strides? Easing into the faster paces again and not jumping right in to 15-20x400 like your crazy coach tells you to?

You have come to realize that his system is good for someone to get a quick good result and then crash. Like you got into really good shape a couple of months ago. Or Phil with his 10 miler.

But this doesn't work long term. I am glad to see you realizing these things.

It is when you haven't put in a hard workout in a few weeks. But he had to stop at seven reps, which shows it was. You never take responsibility for anything and find excuses outside of your control...sore throat, blisters, evil managers, bad weather, etc...

You don't take the blame for his injuries but he didn't become injured until he started running. He had no pain cycling, which shows running is the culprit.

Canefis wrote:

Eat more Tofu wrote:

Yes, your speed only dropped a little bit but the volume was cut 1/2 to 2/3. If you did the prescribed 15-20, you would have had to run in the 80s, which is slower than the prescribed pace.

If the original workout was only 7x400m, he would have prescribed a MUCH faster pace. I don't see why Jan thinks this was a good workout and as another poster said, it was crazy to prescribe the 400s and LT work when you're coming back from injury. Having to drastically cut down the volume shows that, but Jan won't understand.

Why 15-20x400 @75-76 is crazy workout? I ran after recovery from injury 9 days easy +31h biking, Is it not enough easy days?

Oh your legs felt heavy after 31+ hours of cycling? That’s weird.

BOHlCA wrote:

Canefis, you mentioned heavy legs.

Even with the 424 m you weren't' going that fast.

Maybe Eat more Tofu has a point? Maybe less reps? Maybe a few strides? Easing into the faster paces again and not jumping right in to 15-20x400 like your crazy coach tells you to?

You have come to realize that his system is good for someone to get a quick good result and then crash. Like you got into really good shape a couple of months ago. Or Phil with his 10 miler.

But this doesn't work long term. I am glad to see you realizing these things.

Not heavy, but no power to kick faster

Will I finish like those runner "Phil"??

Okay, I too was once a young runner who found the beauty and ugly of letsrun. There will be a lot of good and bad things you read on this forum.

With over 15 years of training under my belt, I can tell you that you will run your best commuting to one plan.

A lot of people are giving you advice on here. Again, some of it is good, some not.

If you are going to commit to JS, then do so fully and completely. Give him a year of your undivided attention and re evaluate after that.

I have done several ‘half baked’ plans over the years and the results are always abysmal. My best years were / are from commiting to one plan and sticking to it. If you want to add or change something, have a conversation with your coach. Good coaches will be able to assess the situation and give your opinion the time of day. Coaches are only human too.

There is no single best running philosophy. You have to give yourself time to develop. There will be bad workouts, there will be good workouts. Just don’t bounce around from coach to coach, idea to idea. It’s foolish, and a sure fire way to fail.

Whether you stay with JS or not is up to you. But if you do, do what he prescribes and give him your feedback. He will listen. If he doesn’t and you’re not happy, you can move on.

Having your own training thread is great for accountability and it is nice for us onlookers to see your progress. Just don’t ask for the advice of everyone on here. You will get confused, frustrated, and not know what to do.

Best of luck.

Canefis when do you go back to the ship?

Kenaneeser Beckelay wrote:

Canefis wrote:

Why 15-20x400 @75-76 is crazy workout? I ran after recovery from injury 9 days easy +31h biking, Is it not enough easy days?

Oh your legs felt heavy after 31+ hours of cycling? That’s weird.

+ 100

A good one Beckelay!

Same procedure wrote:

Kenaneeser Beckelay wrote:

Oh your legs felt heavy after 31+ hours of cycling? That’s weird.

+ 100

A good one Beckelay!

It´s all part of magic . magic results will come soon !! ;)

Just splendid comment!

+1000

I know because I did the same mistake when young!

Same procedure wrote:

+1000

+1

BOHlCA wrote:

Canefis, you mentioned heavy legs.

Even with the 424 m you weren't' going that fast.

Maybe Eat more Tofu has a point? Maybe less reps? Maybe a few strides? Easing into the faster paces again and not jumping right in to 15-20x400 like your crazy coach tells you to?

You have come to realize that his system is good for someone to get a quick good result and then crash. Like you got into really good shape a couple of months ago. Or Phil with his 10 miler.

But this doesn't work long term. I am glad to see you realizing these things.

You are of course wrong! And don`t call me crazy after have coached 13 winners of international races in just 5 years coaching time. I assure you not many coaches have done the same in history.

Yes, it`s like many have told before "dangerous" to navigate at the LRC sea. Many jealous both coaches and runners that think they know better, but that`s how it is here and one have to accept this situation if you want to show your coaching power to the big world of running.But it`s not okey to be called crazy!!