Barega goes home devastated!!

objectiveobserver wrote:

Howratio wrote:

"Well of course Barega can run faster as one can witness his ability to finish fast in a 5000m as evidence that he has the capacity to run 3:33 for sure. Even his 12:43 points to 3:33 ability at a minimum. That said, his 3:36 is a good sign that he is dipping his toes in the 1500m to improve overall.

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Barega has not been close to his 2018: 12:43 again. So it is not right to base his 1500m potential on that outdated performance.

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How fast do you think Jacob Kiplimo and Cheptegei can run in the 1500m?

He just ran 12:49...

Hardloper wrote:

Kiomo wrote:

This is the argument offered by those who know little about the sport. Galen had numerous chances to run a fast 5000m. He ran 12:58.9. He did what he did.

This. He ran tons of fast paced 5Ks year after year on the circuit. That post couldn't be more opposite of the truth.

I actually don't think this is the case. No one is arguing that Rupp was the best in the world, or that 5k was ever his best distance. But there were very few sub-12:50 races while Rupp was running the 5k. If Rupp was running 12:45, he would have to have been part of a well-paced pack of runners at that pace, in perfect conditions, while he was in top form and having a good day. That simply didn't come close to happening.

If every runner had multiple chances per year to run in perfect conditions at a pace matching the peak of their abilities, in races where time was more important than place, we would see vastly faster PRs for the top (non-WR) athletes.

IF Galen ever had the fitness to run 12:45 we would have seen a 12:54 or so out of him in one of those races where the pack ran 12:55 pace. Galen was in those races multiple times and he simply was outclassed in the final lap or two. Your wishful thinking is belied by reality. You might as well say Bekele could have run 12:22 or something because Bekele did not have the benefit of drafting in his world records to the extent that Galen often had in his 5000m races.

You may be right. I don't completely understand why sometimes runners can drop tons of time, and why it's often all in the same race. But I think to be sure that someone like Rupp couldn't have run 12:45, you'd have to be able to explain:

Paris 2012: 6 guys under 12:50; only times sub-12:50 from 2008-2017

Brussels 2018: 3 guys under 12:50; all 8 sub-13's for the year came from this race

These aren't small differences; all of a sudden, several of the best guys ran 10+ seconds faster than normal. I'm sure you can think of the reasons why as well as I can, but most of the factors that applied to them would apply to Rupp as well. And a 10 second drop would get him into the 12:40's. If there were 3 of these races a year, do we think Rupp would never have made the train?

Now, maybe something is different about Rupp than those 8 men (not all of whom are superstars). But it's hard to reject that out of hand given that Rupp was competitive in slower races, was better at 10k than 5k, and simply never went out at 12:45 pace.

All we have to be able to explain is that he had plenty of chances where he was in sub 13 races where he finished mid front pack and only broke 13 once with a 12:58 despite those opportunities. That speaks for itself.

Amazing 10000m runner. Overrated 5000m runner.

What is so bad about a 3:36.07 after a hard 5000m where he went out in 2:29? Seems perfectly reasonable. Probably could run 3:32-3:33 with more specific training in a fast race, but who cares - he's a 5000m specialist with a kick that seems to be good enough in many races.

What a strange thread.

PACING MATTERS FOR FAST 5000s MORE THAN 1500s!!!!

Thank you for pointing this out!

jabouk wrote:

PACING MATTERS FOR FAST 5000s MORE THAN 1500s!!!!

Thank you for pointing this out!

That is false. Please educate yourself.

If Rupp could have run anywhere close to 12:45 (or even the AR), Salazar would have set up a race and made it happen. He spent most of the 2014 season trying to run a fast 5k and always maxed out right around 13 flat.

Looks like objectiveobserver goes home devastated. Learn the sport, buddy. Talent does not go away, no matter the distance. 3:32.97https://doha.diamondleague.com/programme-results-doha/#baseFrame#__athDisciplineRoot#DisciplineInit#Doha2020_TIMING_ATHM1500M---DIAMOND---FNL-000100--_json##main-frame_content#__athRun#RunSubFrame#Doha2020_TIMING_ATHM1500M---DIAMOND---FNL-000100--_json

objectiveobserver wrote:

Why do you think Barega should be faster?

He is a typical long distance runner.

How fast do you think Jacob Kiplimo could run in the 1500m? Or Joshua Cheptegei?

Not especially fast. As expected for a 12:43 runner. This is what Rupp was running almost.

hiydeeho wrote:

Not especially fast. As expected for a 12:43 runner. This is what Rupp was running almost.

It was a nice performance. He wasn’t racing McSweyn really and he took down the whole pack which included solid steeple guys who are in good form. Not a surprising result but a good one for him.

standard setter wrote:

"Looks like objectiveobserver goes home devastated.

Learn the sport, buddy. Talent does not go away, no matter the distance.

3:32.97"

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I am not devastated at all. I watched the race and was happy to see all the PBs including Barega´s.

When I posted earlier in this thread it was almost as a defence for Barega who some body was mocking for not running super fast in his first 1500 run for a while and in a race where no one was running very fast.

I didn´t write about how fast I thought Barega could run but I estimated Cheptegei could run 3:32 and Jacob Kiplimo 3:34.

But I think Barega raced very well today sitting just behind the leaders of the main field and then running a very fast last 200m. I think he can go even faster if he runs 1500m regularly in the future.

I hope Barega, Kejelcha and the other Ethiopian top runners will come back in their best shape next year so there can be good competition in DL and at the Olympics.

It will especially be interesting to see all the top runners in the 3000m as the new "long" distance in DL now where Jacob and Jakob have set some fast times for everyone to challenge.

seasoned ranker wrote:

What is so bad about a 3:36.07 after a hard 5000m where he went out in 2:29? Seems perfectly reasonable. Probably could run 3:32-3:33 with more specific training in a fast race, but who cares - he's a 5000m specialist with a kick that seems to be good enough in many races.

What a strange thread.

3:32.97. As I said previously, not surprising.

Well Objective Observer you were wrong as you said Barega ran 3:36 and you implied that was to be expected as he is a long distance runner who is not in top shape. Now he runs 3:32 shortly after. You were wrong and there is no shame in that.

Well, let's be honest. That's not a 3:32. That's pretty much a 3:33 flat. That's J. Gomez territory. It's good but not really fast.