Mo Farah is the reason we're not more excited about Cheptegei's 12:35...

My argument highlights Farah cos he was the dominant 5k/10k runner of the last 10 years. By extension, it applies to his rivals as well. All cdnt break the WRs cos they were unable. They didn't pass up the chance to. I am not aware that Farah has any training indiscipline, like was being alleged wrt Bekele's marathon career which he apparently had to cut out b4 he returned to run the near WR in Berlin. Breaking WRs wd simply make him long distance running royalty. Pple train to their limits cos the margins btn a gold medal and silver are very small. However the margin a btn gold medal and a WR in long distances is monumental.

Anthos wrote:

I am very doubtful that someone driven enough to train for championship and olympic golds and national and continental records wd somehow turn down the chance to break world records. Not only wd it be out of character, it wd be downright disrespectful to himself, his talent, his rivals and to the sport.

I mean the evidence is there that he didn't chase the lofty 5,000 times. Do you think it was impossible for him/Salazar to go to a meet director in Europe and say "we would like to make an attempt at the European 5,000m record. Can we have a pace-maker attempt to take it to 3,000 at 7:40, at which Mo will push on." No, that would be acquiesced in a heartbeat. He just didn't do it. It wasn't just that he would never take it upon himself to chase a fast time, he didn't even endeavor to set up a race to time trial one.

Why would i even go for a word record when i can make tons of prize money, inflate my brand/image (and earning more money via sponsors), by "simply" coasting thru races at the back of pack until hammering the final 200-400 to win?

My manager would also earn way more money with this approach. .

Just how much money does a one off WR even earn, over the actual win?

Daniel Komen had a string of world records, but didn't race/win near as many big money races as Mo or other veterans, and the average non runner knows Mo, but would have no idea who Komen is.

Due to Covid, Cheptegai had no Olympics or other big stuff to go for, so in that case WR attempt makes sense and was good for his brand/image.

Bekele had both. There's no question had Mo set World Records in the 5,000 or 10,000 that would only enhance his Q rating in Britain. European records would, as well if you argue (likely correctly) that he couldn't break 12:40.

Cos the two are not mutually exclysive. Getting a WR guarantees you even more money. Farah likes titles. He proudly calls himself Sir Mo on race bibs. A world record is a big deal in the UK. Their last outdoor WRs in athletics are from 1993 (Collin Jackson 110H and Sally Gunnell 400H). They made Farah a CBE (2013) and then knighted him (2017)for services to athletics .They wd probably make him a Lord if he set a world record.

Show me the money wrote:

Why would i even go for a word record when i can make tons of prize money, inflate my brand/image (and earning more money via sponsors), by "simply" coasting thru races at the back of pack until hammering the final 200-400 to win?

My manager would also earn way more money with this approach. .

Just how much money does a one off WR even earn, over the actual win?

Daniel Komen had a string of world records, but didn't race/win near as many big money races as Mo or other veterans, and the average non runner knows Mo, but would have no idea who Komen is.

Due to Covid, Cheptegai had no Olympics or other big stuff to go for, so in that case WR attempt makes sense and was good for his brand/image.

Komen is Kenyan. Their world champions, world record holders don't get anywhere near the same amount of money or international coverage as would a British WR holder. Advertising and Endorsement industries are not very developed in Sub Saharan Africa as they are in Europe. Komen also stopped racing before the advent of big money in athletics and tv coverage. One of many reasons more people know Bolt than Greene.

WRs a bigger recognition quotient. Bigger inspiration to next generation. There are very many gold medal winners. Very few WR holders. That's why Cheptegei holds Bekele as his idol not Farah. Yet he grew up watching both. Given a choice to hold both gold medals and WRs, it's a deal any athlete wd sign on without question.

Anthos wrote:

WRs a bigger recognition quotient. Bigger inspiration to next generation. There are very many gold medal winners. Very few WR holders. That's why Cheptegei holds Bekele as his idol not Farah. Yet he grew up watching both. Given a choice to hold both gold medals and WRs, it's a deal any athlete wd sign on without question.

As a runner/fan i sort of agree, but how do you know whether Chep admires Bekele for WR, or for consistency and wins. WRs are eventually broken, no one can take away 5 consecutive cross country wins or Farahs Oly double double.

Also, and more practically speaking, no one in this thread has monetized a WR, for Farah or any runner, and their manager and coach. Often their mgr/coach controls the show, at least in the beginning.

Yeah getting a WR is helpful to ones career, but there is risk and opportunity cost going for it: you can look like a fool/flake if you announce/attempt it and fail badly, and that damages your reputation/value. Also, if you put all your eggs into one WR basket, you might not race as much thereby diminishing your prize money and visibility.

I would say Farahs golds in World champs in 2011/13/15/17 and double double oly golds are worth way more than a single WR that may have cost him some of those wins. There is some happy medium between champs and WRs, but bottom line is, Farah and his coach/mgr probably realized he just didn't have it, so why damage your reputation by going for it an failing.

It's just a very cool place to run. The atmosphere and location are awesome, 5- Star accommodations, and the athletes are treated like royalty.

"Go Run One"

bropl wrote:

What a silly argument. Rarity of real threats to the record make it more unique, not less.

Something cannot be "more unique"

It's unique or it isn't

I think Mo and his dozen gold medals and knighthood sleep just fine at night,

Personally, I never thought Farah had that kind of elite, world-record type speed.

He is the definition of a championship runner. He is one of the GOATs in that regard.

But never did he come remotely close to challenging any of the fastest times in history. That wasn't his game, nor did he have the talent for it. He is perfectly suoted for the kind of career he's had (an excellent one).

This thread is pretty much what I alluded to several days ago on the WR thread, but no one commented:

Farah beat them psychologically. Once runners realised what Farah did in the final laps, no one wanted to 'be the guy' to take the risk and run their own race. I hated watching it unfold because I knew what the result would be, despite several in the pack either being outright faster, or capable of racing as well as he did,

I saw this back in the 80's, when Fordyce dominated Comrades ( 9 wins). Once he started winning, and had the aura, every potential runner packed around him, which is exactly what he wanted. Fact is that no one leading at halfway wins the race --yes because there are TV runners going hell for leather- but a variation of that which went into the psyche of opponents was that " you don't win if you are ahead of Bruce at halfway".

Fordyce's greatest psych ploy was to tap the leader on the backside as he passed into the final lead, and no one wanted to be the one to 'get the tap', and most races were won in ok, but much slower than recent times.

Farah beat Cheptegei in the London 2017 WC 10k. It was a fast race also under 26:50.

Farah knew what he was doing. Medals matter. Once Cheptegei has been holding the 5k WR for 20 years, who is going to remember that Komen held it 40 years ago?

But people will remember the Brit who won multiple Olympic and world championships.

ex-runner wrote:

Farah beat Cheptegei in the London 2017 WC 10k. It was a fast race also under 26:50.

Farah knew what he was doing. Medals matter. Once Cheptegei has been holding the 5k WR for 20 years, who is going to remember that Komen held it 40 years ago?

But people will remember the Brit who won multiple Olympic and world championships.

That was a 20 yr old Cheptegei, he has improved immensely since then. And that race was that quick because Cheptegei pushed the pace throughout while the Kenyans didn't want to share pace setting duties.

There is no law against getting medals as well as setting WRs. Farah wd hv taken both if he was able.

True athletics fans will always know who Komen is. Just like they know who Emil Zátopek is, more than a half a century after his exploits.

Anthos wrote:

ex-runner wrote:

Farah beat Cheptegei in the London 2017 WC 10k. It was a fast race also under 26:50.

Farah knew what he was doing. Medals matter. Once Cheptegei has been holding the 5k WR for 20 years, who is going to remember that Komen held it 40 years ago?

But people will remember the Brit who won multiple Olympic and world championships.

That was a 20 yr old Cheptegei, he has improved immensely since then. And that race was that quick because Cheptegei pushed the pace throughout while the Kenyans didn't want to share pace setting duties.

There is no law against getting medals as well as setting WRs. Farah wd hv taken both if he was able.

True athletics fans will always know who Komen is. Just like they know who Emil Zátopek is, more than a half a century after his exploits.

Zatopek the multiple Olympic champion...? Of course.

It's not about being remembered by fringe statisticians. It's about making that jump to the mainstream where the public's imagination is captured.

Of course if Farah thought he could have broken the WR he would have tried. But it is irrelevant in terms of the sport.

Athletics sees itself as an enigma which is compared across generations, and thus fails to capture the general public in the pure competition in itself. Everyone wants to compare athletes against the all time lists and records, rather than focusing on being the best right now.

The sport sells itself short in this respect, relegating itself to a kind of pastime enjoyed by stamp collectors.

Reason they rarely ran fast races is because there were too many good guys in each 5000 meet, so no one wanted go out fast and risk losing. For cheptegei in Monaco the were no real contenders so he knew that if blew up he would still win the race.

If I had to choose between medals or WRs, I would also choose medals like Mo. You know, a WR is mostly always limited. I mean, it will get broken one day and forgotten, unless you break some special marks for the first time (4 minute mile) but medals are forever.

And by the way, Mo is going for the hour WR in September. He could easily call it quits for his carreer, but he still got something inside of him.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/53156958

Nobody thinks there is anything "wrong" with Farah never chasing a fast 5K time or whatever. It's more weird than anything. He could've done it in any number of meets with little to no legitimate competition just like Cheptegei did. He just didn't want to, evidently. A lot of his domestic DL races (Birmingham/London) were set up for him to win with ease, and he could've just asked for a pace and went after sub-12:50. There is no reason that it would have interfered with him pulling off his championship doubles, if it didn't for Bekele, Geb et al.

Zatopek also set WRs. Farrah didn't.