New Zealand 102 days with out Covid case records 4 new cases from unknown source will lock country down for 3 days

Armstronglivs wrote:

The New Zealand government puts lives ahead of the economy, unlike a number of other countries that have a high death toll and a struggling economy (like the UK). Economies will recover; dead people don't.

You still think I'm talking about just the economy? The economy plays a large role in how people live, and survive. Destory that and it will certainly take its toll on citizens. However, there's much, MUCH more going on here than just the economy. The psychological impact of all of this is well underway. I shudder to think what the human condition will be like after another 6mos of this, let alone 2 years. For those already struggling to get through this, it's already been difficult. Imagine what happens when number of people struggling grows 100-fold.

I think you need to gain a different perspective on what this disease, the decisions our leaders have made, or not made, will have on the longer term development of humans, especially children in general. Not because they were infected, but because of the currend handling of the situation.

Your position is that the full lockdown is the only way to go. Stay indoors. Stay away from other people. If you have to co-mingle, do it safely. If someone tests positive, close down the country.

This is not a path forward for most and I suspect the calling for better strategy will only grow in the coming months.

You have oversimplified and distorted what I have said. A lockdown is only necessary when trying to prevent wider community transmission - which is what New Zealand has done - and the US failed to do. I do not under-estimate the wider social implications of fighting the pandemic. But the priority begins with fighting the disease to save lives; all else follows from that. What is your alternative?

Armstronglivs wrote:

"So you actually believe that in three days of a shutdown a virus spread can be stopped?"

The health experts believe that time will enable them to trace the path of the infections while preventing further spread; if it takes longer, then it will take longer. I don't presume to know better than they do. And nor should you. They are experts for a reason.

What have the experts gotten right with this virus?

why so doom and gloom? wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

"So you actually believe that in three days of a shutdown a virus spread can be stopped?"

The health experts believe that time will enable them to trace the path of the infections while preventing further spread; if it takes longer, then it will take longer. I don't presume to know better than they do. And nor should you. They are experts for a reason.

What have the experts gotten right with this virus?

I get a kick out seeing the term "Experts" applied to anything Covid. In reality, there are no experts when it comes to this. An expert is someone who has spent years studying a subject and knows it inside and out. They can cite papers and studies off the top of their head and have their mind completely wrapped around the subject.

Having a worldwide pandemic in the modern global age is brand new to everyone. There are no experts in this, only people who know bits and pieces. Maybe in 4 or 5 years, we can truly have experts in how a global pandemic impacts us economically, medically and socially, but until then, there are no experts.

seikosha wrote:

why so doom and gloom? wrote:

What have the experts gotten right with this virus?

I get a kick out seeing the term "Experts" applied to anything Covid. In reality, there are no experts when it comes to this. An expert is someone who has spent years studying a subject and knows it inside and out. They can cite papers and studies off the top of their head and have their mind completely wrapped around the subject.

Having a worldwide pandemic in the modern global age is brand new to everyone. There are no experts in this, only people who know bits and pieces. Maybe in 4 or 5 years, we can truly have experts in how a global pandemic impacts us economically, medically and socially, but until then, there are no experts.

You must not know Armstronglivs!

Reality in down under wrote:

And guess what New Zealand is an island country in the middle of nowhere with only four million people and it costs you over $5000 if you to leave or come back in required isolation (like a prison). Basically they are shut off to the rest of the world so there's that fun side of it.

If I were going to prison, NZ would be a great place to be imprisoned!

Good article in NEJM that sums up why New Zealand's response was so much better than many other countries. NZ followed the experts and took decisive action early instead of trying to find the least intrusive way to manage the virus. And NZ realized early on that it would not be able to rely on testing to control the virus due to lack of supplies. Buy in throughout the population was very strong. Stay at home order lasted about 7 weeks.

As for the US, we had basically the same initial trajectory. Virus was first discovered in late January and community spread was confirmed within a few weeks. Testing roll out was botched and exponential growth in cases was projected. But instead of taking decisive action, the Federal government stepped aside and left it up to the states. The states had widely varying responses. Too many with early spread waited too long to implement lock downs and paid a heavy price. Those who caught spread early implemented very weak lockdowns that were rolled back too soon.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2025203?query=C19

Muebele wrote:

fun sides wrote:

They get to live their lives... unless that involves leaving the island... and now womp womp.. they don't get to live their lives anymore.

That's like saying antarctica has covid under control. Color me unimpressed.

They get to have live sports, eat in restaurants and live their lives. Color me impressed

why so doom and gloom? wrote:

I get a kick out seeing the term "Experts" applied to anything Covid. In reality, there are no experts when it comes to this. An expert is someone who has spent years studying a subject and knows it inside and out. They can cite papers and studies off the top of their head and have their mind completely wrapped around the subject.

Having a worldwide pandemic in the modern global age is brand new to everyone. There are no experts in this, only people who know bits and pieces. Maybe in 4 or 5 years, we can truly have experts in how a global pandemic impacts us economically, medically and socially, but until then, there are no experts.

Redundantly speaking, you don't completely understand what the word pandemic means.

Armstronglivs wrote:

The New Zealand government puts lives ahead of the economy, unlike a number of other countries that have a high death toll and a struggling economy (like the UK). Economies will recover; dead people don't.

The economy is lives.It provides you with everything you need to live. Printing money will eventually devalue the currency and cause inflation and starvation (and increased taxation to work off the debt load nations are accumulating.) Even now, the mass contraction of the global economy is causing widespread suffering in the developing world. The people that are dying from this are largely

people that would be dying anyhow (50% of deaths are people in nursing homes, who typically die after 5 months regardless of COVID.). New Zealand is going to continue their absurd policies for many months

joedirt wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

The New Zealand government puts lives ahead of the economy, unlike a number of other countries that have a high death toll and a struggling economy (like the UK). Economies will recover; dead people don't.

The economy is lives.It provides you with everything you need to live. Printing money will eventually devalue the currency and cause inflation and starvation (and increased taxation to work off the debt load nations are accumulating.) Even now, the mass contraction of the global economy is causing widespread suffering in the developing world. The people that are dying from this are largely

people that would be dying anyhow (50% of deaths are people in nursing homes, who typically die after 5 months regardless of COVID.). New Zealand is going to continue their absurd policies for many months

How about all the kids that have passed because of suicide & drug over dose...why no mention of those stats since school shutdowns?

seikosha wrote:

why so doom and gloom? wrote:

What have the experts gotten right with this virus?

I get a kick out seeing the term "Experts" applied to anything Covid. In reality, there are no experts when it comes to this. An expert is someone who has spent years studying a subject and knows it inside and out. They can cite papers and studies off the top of their head and have their mind completely wrapped around the subject.

Having a worldwide pandemic in the modern global age is brand new to everyone. There are no experts in this, only people who know bits and pieces. Maybe in 4 or 5 years, we can truly have experts in how a global pandemic impacts us economically, medically and socially, but until then, there are no experts.

So none of you would ever go to a doctor when you are sick? And scientists never have anything to tell you. How ignorance elevates itself to claim knowledge it doesn't have.

why so doom and gloom? wrote:

seikosha wrote:

I get a kick out seeing the term "Experts" applied to anything Covid. In reality, there are no experts when it comes to this. An expert is someone who has spent years studying a subject and knows it inside and out. They can cite papers and studies off the top of their head and have their mind completely wrapped around the subject.

Having a worldwide pandemic in the modern global age is brand new to everyone. There are no experts in this, only people who know bits and pieces. Maybe in 4 or 5 years, we can truly have experts in how a global pandemic impacts us economically, medically and socially, but until then, there are no experts.

You must not know Armstronglivs!

I'm not an expert. I listen to what they have to say. But you don't. You know better.

why so doom and gloom? wrote:

joedirt wrote:

The economy is lives.It provides you with everything you need to live. Printing money will eventually devalue the currency and cause inflation and starvation (and increased taxation to work off the debt load nations are accumulating.) Even now, the mass contraction of the global economy is causing widespread suffering in the developing world. The people that are dying from this are largely

people that would be dying anyhow (50% of deaths are people in nursing homes, who typically die after 5 months regardless of COVID.). New Zealand is going to continue their absurd policies for many months

How about all the kids that have passed because of suicide & drug over dose...why no mention of those stats since school shutdowns?

So show us the stats.

gbnfhmn wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

The fact is that there will be no "normal" while the disease is present, and no economic fix. Absent a vaccine the only strategy available is suppression if not elimination.

there could be a normal tomorrow for 90% of people if governments just told the very old, very obese, and sick people to voluntarily self-isolate. then we could achieve herd immunity amongst the general population and when the vulnerable came back out of isolation, they would be less likely to catch the virus as there would be less transmission.

they would still have to deal with seasonal outbreaks, just like with the normal flu, but that's life. people die from illnesses, it helps keep population growth in check.

Quit being so damn reasonable. It is of no use against the full time precious Chinese bots who strong arm the fear and bang the covid drum around here.

ghguhu wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

The fun side is that the disease is under control in NZ. Being shut off from the rest of the world isn't so bad when you see what the rest of the world is like - especially the US.

Please update us in August 2021 to let us know how they did.

COVID death per capita

GDP...

BTW: 3 or 4 known cases with no known source = 400 cases

It certainly isn't a good look. A scientist modeling outbreaks has already suggested that data indictates some 6 or 7 dozen now have the virus in the space of two days from zero.

The danger NZ was always running would not be seen until 2021 and that is the big countries develop a vaccine for their own people, that is 85% effective and the other 15% are dead or immune and can reopen their economies, meanwhile NZ has neither and is forced to reopen and be ravaged or stay closed and default in an economic crisis.

seikosha wrote:

Been there, done that wrote:

Good call....I didn't even realize I did that. Not the first time or probably the last that I'll be redundant like that. Thanks for pointing it out!

Redundantly speaking, you don't completely understand what the word pandemic means.

Oh my... That moment you hit Post Reply and then realize you have forgotten to change handles.