Lance Armstrong said he used to be able to average 495 watts for 30-40 minutes

Some of you mention the drugs and nothing else. Putting ethics aside, let's be honest. The dude combined training of the highest order with the chemicals. You can't just stick a needle in yourself and do that. Sure, he broke the rules and cheated his competitors, so from the ethical side it's bad. But from the scientific side I think it might suggest a synergistic effect when you combine chemicals and training. Two plus two might equal more than four.

jamin wrote:

Good lord

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEiQtpe8fik&feature=youtu.be&t=1382

Completely meaningless, the guy was on a cocktail of ~10 PEDs..........so what is the big deal?

that wattage would give him the 1 hour world record..... wiggins did 440 for one hour. 495 for 30-40min gives lance an ftp 1 hour ability of 470

Drugs or no drugs, still a freak of nature

San Diego Hobby Jogger wrote:

that wattage would give him the 1 hour world record..... wiggins did 440 for one hour. 495 for 30-40min gives lance an ftp 1 hour ability of 470

Theoretically, yes.

But, can he sustain that wattage in the TT position? When you're climbing on a bike, you can move around and engage all different muscle groups to be as efficient as possible. That TT position is locked in and a set specific group of muscles. Personally, my FTP on my TT set up is around 5% lower than my FTP on my standard race bike.

Tour da Lance wrote:

Lance was a doping machine - nothing like we've ever seen in cycling and probably something we'll never see again.

I've oftened wondered; what exactly is Lance on? Lol.

https://youtu.be/z1Z6xGu7oIQ

Lots of doping machines at theTour de France:

not a nice person wrote:

VAboi wrote:

The same reason why we give all of the other cheaters the time of day--it is incredible to see things that do not seem humanly possible. Spare me with the holier than thou "I care about clean sport" BS and have some respect for Lance. His feats inspired a generation of people to exercise and compete, which is something that none of us will ever accomplish. If you think that Lance was net negative for the world then you should think more deeply.

Ask the Andreus or the Irish therapist how they feel about that statement. Do you think it’s ok to destroy 8-10 lives in order to “inspire” people to exercise?

Are you serious right now? "Destroyed lives" Dude news flash - because of Lance, Frankie Andreu (who also took the same drugs) made a fortune and leveraged it into his whole commentary gig. Betsy Andreu who was just a thoroughly ordinary women, ended up on all sorts of television shows telling her story of woe and undoubtedly banking checks as a result. And the price she paid? - Lance calling her a "crazy b$tch". That destroyed her life?! F$#k off mate, both of them seem absolutely fine to me. Same with Emma O'Reilly who got the worst of this - having been sued for libel which was then dropped, had her life so badly destroyed she has now forgiven Lance and they get on just fine after he openly admitted he treated her the worst he's ever treated anyone?

So the person he treated the worst, attempted to sue for libel, simply forgave him and moved with his life and you are contending he quote "destroyed" lives? Clearly you don't have any perspective (and I don't, but Im not the one making such claims) as to what a "destroyed" life is. But I'm going to go on record and suggest that neither O'Reilly, the Andreus, Greg LeMond or Floyd Landis have lives that are in absolute rubble.

Bottom line. We never walked a step in Lance Armstrongs shoes. Never. So to spout off with all this "holier-than-thou" bullsh$t about how and what he did was so evil and rip the guy is so utterly self righteous and ignorant it defies description.

Just to be clear, Lance ended up having to protect an empire (the Livestrong foundation) that was never by design and fell at his feet. He ended up being the figurehead of the foundation that as was mentioned, legitimately gave hope (in amongst hundreds of millions of tangible dollars) to people struggling to come to grips with the realities of life and death at the hands of cancer. If he was to go down for doping at that time (to be clear, a crusade led by people that had also profited off the same doping), the impact who have been devastating to those innocent people. You really think Lance Armstrong wanted to be that person? Would you? Lance was cocky little muthaf$$ker from Texas that simply wanted to ride a bike and win races and he never professed to be anything else.

For so few to understand the rock and hard place Lance was morally wedged between for so long is astounding to me. Do I blame him for defending himself? Absolutely not. Lance has had to deal with the guilt of the way he treated people and I truly believe he is sorry for that. It's also real easy to sit back and claim that you would have handled it so much better. The way that he is portrayed as some inhumane scumbag is comical. If anything the way he acted showed he completely human (and hence fallible) he is and was.

I used to be so anti-Lance when I was more involved competitively with running. But that's because I had no perspective on life and only gave a s#$t about myself and my view of the world. When I grew up and understood that I too wasn't perfect and neither were others and that in so many cases we should hold off casting judgement because we simply don't know how complex some peoples stories really are, I softened on Lance. I couldn't care less that he cheated at cycling. Everyone did and still does. It's only sports anyways.

Based on what he accomplished that seems very reasonable for 30-40 minutes.

Swim Bike Run wrote:

San Diego Hobby Jogger wrote:

that wattage would give him the 1 hour world record..... wiggins did 440 for one hour. 495 for 30-40min gives lance an ftp 1 hour ability of 470

Theoretically, yes.

But, can he sustain that wattage in the TT position? When you're climbing on a bike, you can move around and engage all different muscle groups to be as efficient as possible. That TT position is locked in and a set specific group of muscles. Personally, my FTP on my TT set up is around 5% lower than my FTP on my standard race bike.

he is a high cadence rider so he mostly sat on uphill climbs instead of mashing in a big gear. tour de france guys start out with a TT stage usually

Absurd to say that. 500w for 30 minutes is only done by the most elite professionals if at all. This is like saying weekend warriors go out and run sub 3:50 miles all the time.

agreed.

I would also add ( before the f##ks get here and twist your argument) that the above isn't a glowing endorsement of Lance and every single one of his decisions. You're allowed to point out people's hypocrisy without supporting one side over the other.

The guy could race bikes and in his era he did the same things others were doing. Level field. Many critics but winners always have those.

Thank you.

Of course I am not endorsing all of Lance's behavior and his decisions. As you rightly picked up on, I am pointing out how what went down, while to us on the surface at first seemed sh$tty, has so many layers and nuances to it we can never ever understand or appreciate unless we were in his position. That is fundamentally what is constantly overlooked by almost everyone that sh$ts on Lance these days.

He must have been using weight loss drugs as well, because he saw the key to climbing was in dropping weight. Cytomel would be one possibility. Recall too the close connection to Salazar, who was obsessed with this for running. He admitted on Oprah to using EPO, HGH, transfusions, Cortisol, testosterone, cortico-steroids (class of prednisone types). Probably there were more.

As you say of yourself in the past, you sound like a very unsavory person, which is to say, like Lance. You know the right word. Anyone spouting the phrase 'holier than thou' attitude in defense of a cheater like this, who stole money from other dopers, as well as sponsors and fans, has a limited moral code. We all know that we'd be a lot faster with drugs. Those who use them can and should be differentiated from those who do. I'm happy with my limited gains and results clean and wouldn't have it any other way.

From those who do NOT.

San Diego Hobby Jogger wrote:

Swim Bike Run wrote:

Theoretically, yes.

But, can he sustain that wattage in the TT position? When you're climbing on a bike, you can move around and engage all different muscle groups to be as efficient as possible. That TT position is locked in and a set specific group of muscles. Personally, my FTP on my TT set up is around 5% lower than my FTP on my standard race bike.

he is a high cadence rider so he mostly sat on uphill climbs instead of mashing in a big gear. tour de france guys start out with a TT stage usually

Just re-watched his 2004 L' Alpe Du Huez ITT (37:XX) . Yes, he was spinning fast but, he was switching between standing up, the tops, the drops, and the hoods throughout the effort. He didn't use clip-ons as other riders did. Even though that era was turbocharged shall we say, it was still an insane effort.

San Diego Hobby Jogger wrote:

that wattage would give him the 1 hour world record..... wiggins did 440 for one hour. 495 for 30-40min gives lance an ftp 1 hour ability of 470

If Lance Armstrong was a runner, that would give him a sub-26 10k. Wow.

I've been in some labs and tested some really good cyclists . None at Lance Armstrong's level but still some really good riders. Very few of them could push 400 watts + for any real length of time. Depending on their size 450 to 500 watts would blow them up on 2 minute stage in a VO2 max test. Saw one or two guys get to 550 but none of them could finish two minutes there.