Rough Day for College Athletics

Runner10287 wrote:

HRE wrote:

I had a friend whose doctoral dissertation looked at factors that contributed to student retention at universities. He found that students who made connections to some aspect of university life outside of classes was the biggest factor in whether they remained at school or left. Essentially that implies that a student's chances of graduating are enhanced by aspects of college life aside from classes.

Colleges shouldn't be the development centres for elite professional and Olympic development. They can have their own development centres for those good enough. College sports can go back to competing and training for the joy of it and focus on education of health and fitness.

Instead of the Power 5 traveling across the country to compete. Go up against schools in your area.

Clearly you do not have the mindset of wanting to be an elite athlete of any stature. I'm sure you have fun going out and running 10:30 minute miles while you think about all the pizza you're gonna stuff your face with afterwards. Lol "For the joy of it"if you don't get joy out of it you're doing it wrong.

Take that fake elitist attitude somewhere else. You can train to your potential in sports without needing million dollar coaches and facilites.

Professional leagues can recruit and develop athletes on their own. Olympic Training Centers can do the same.

Seriously the win at all cost attitude is going to be your downfall.

Runner10287 wrote:

Seriously the win at all cost attitude is going to be your downfall.

Quote me next time boomer. I see, and Michael Jordan wasn't successful? he had that mentality. A lot of others do too. That's why you're a failure and they're a success.

Kindafunny wrote:

Clearly you do not have the mindset of wanting to be an elite athlete of any stature. I'm sure you have fun going out and running 10:30 minute miles while you think about all the pizza you're gonna stuff your face with afterwards. Lol "For the joy of it"if you don't get joy out of it you're doing it wrong.

To be as good as you can you need to compete against the best competition you can find. For most schools and their athletes that does not require travelling across the country. It may make sense to do that in the revenue sports. I can see where it makes sense for say, West Virginia's football team to fly to Austin or Norman. But there is no reason for their baseball team to do that. They can play in front of similar sized crowds and get challenging competition by taking a bus to Charlottesville or Raleigh or Knoxville or many other closer locations. That would allow their players to compete at an elite level for a lot less money.

The same sort of thing holds true for cross country and track. A cross country meet including Syracuse, Iona, Providence, Villanova, and Georgetown is going to provide very good competition almost every year and if you have it in the mid to late afternoon your team can not only get there by bus but also leave and return to campus on the same day and avoid hotel expenses.

No need to quote when it's the post directly above. Sorry if you just like reading you're own writing.

The Jordans of the world will succeed in sports with or without going through the college ranks. He could have been drafted out of high school and developed through the NBA minor league system. With his determination and ability he would have been fine.

Let college sports be an outlet for physical activity for those whose talents and determination are applied to their academic pursuits.

HRE wrote:

Call me Lamb chop wrote:

Track and cross-country as D1 sports for men are over. within 2 years all the majors will be nothing but football, men's and women's basketball and enough women's sports to Title IX comply with football numbers

Remember that the NCAA mandates that their schools sponsor a minimum number of sports so to have nothing but football, basketball, and women's sports would require a rules change.

This is the opportunity that the Power 5 needed to leave the NCAA and start their own club while not getting major backlash from the friends of the minor conferences, D2, etc.

1600m506pr:-/ wrote:

HRE wrote:

Remember that the NCAA mandates that their schools sponsor a minimum number of sports so to have nothing but football, basketball, and women's sports would require a rules change.

Andrew Luck's dad (or Vince McMahon) will be the Commissioner of the organization.

This is the opportunity that the Power 5 needed to leave the NCAA and start their own club while not getting major backlash from the friends of the minor conferences, D2, etc.

+1000

Runner10287 wrote:

HRE wrote:

I had a friend whose doctoral dissertation looked at factors that contributed to student retention at universities. He found that students who made connections to some aspect of university life outside of classes was the biggest factor in whether they remained at school or left. Essentially that implies that a student's chances of graduating are enhanced by aspects of college life aside from classes.

Colleges shouldn't be the development centres for elite professional and Olympic development. They can have their own development centres for those good enough. College sports can go back to competing and training for the joy of it and focus on education of health and fitness.

Instead of the Power 5 traveling across the country to compete. Go up against schools in your area.

Runner10287 wrote:

Take that fake elitist attitude somewhere else. You can train to your potential in sports without needing million dollar coaches and facilites.

Professional leagues can recruit and develop athletes on their own. Olympic Training Centers can do the same.

It seems pretty easy to do. There are quite a few nations that just dominate this sport and they don't even have decent facilities. Most of their tracks and roads are made of compacted dirt and for some odd reason, our college kids with a closet full of free clothes and shoes that train on immaculate Mondo surfaces, underwater treadmills, and Alter-G machines cannot even get close.

Mr. Doubtfire wrote:

A rough day for college athletics, but a great day for colleges.

Schools need to get out of the business of sports and refocus on their core mission.

I'm loving it. Dismantle it all.

Racist

Portland Hobby Jogger wrote:

Runner10287 wrote:

Take that fake elitist attitude somewhere else. You can train to your potential in sports without needing million dollar coaches and facilites.

Professional leagues can recruit and develop athletes on their own. Olympic Training Centers can do the same.

It seems pretty easy to do. There are quite a few nations that just dominate this sport and they don't even have decent facilities. Most of their tracks and roads are made of compacted dirt and for some odd reason, our college kids with a closet full of free clothes and shoes that train on immaculate Mondo surfaces, underwater treadmills, and Alter-G machines cannot even get close.

Our athletes who do get beyond close in terms of being world class performances are often in events other than the distances. If college track and cross country disappears the US is going to have a lot fewer world class athletes in sprint and field events because universities are our developmental program. Maybe it should be different but it's not and if the college system collapses USATF is not going to be able to replace it as things stand now.

Who gives af about the USATF. All colleges need to do is give students an opportunity to compete and develop and they will be fine. College running needs to lean into the idea of a college athlete that the NCAA tries to promote (Amatuer, student first, in it for the love of the sport) or else they are going to get left behind by the revenue sports. Stick with a sustainable model that doesn't take itself too seriously.

Well, yes. USATF, whatever letters it was using, has never needed to do much about developing the sport at grass roots. High schools and colleges have done that. But if college track and field disappears or nearly does the part of our system that turns promising high school athletes into national and international ones is gone and there is no replacement system.

Good thread.

On one hand, the US college system has become an over priced, over valued ponzi scheme and needs an overhaul. As far as college sports being cut currently, we all know it's due to covid. We could avoid many, if not most, of these cuts by fully opening them back and run through covid, and not away from it.

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the NCAA say they were waiving the minimum sport sponsorship requirement along with Title IX for the 20-21 academic year?

I participated in both D1 varsity and club sports while in school. I honestly think students get more out of the club sport experience - there is greater leadership opportunities and the need for diverse skill building such as logistics, coaching, fundraising, and web design.

Loss of coaching jobs would certainly be unfortunate, but in terms of preparing for future careers, club sports are much more useful and you still have strong community building. I think switching to a more club sport-centric system with some funding from the schools would have a lot of advantages for students over varsity sports.

This is hardly new information. People have known this at least since the early 1990s (perhaps when your friend was dissertating). Get students involved with something that they love, and for which a prerequisite is satisfactory progress through their academic curriculum, and school retention rates improve dramatically. Could be theatre, athletics, band, political or other groups. Some form of non-academic connection to a school-sanctioned program is critical. What isn't clear is whether club-level athletics would satisfy this need.

HRE wrote:

I had a friend whose doctoral dissertation looked at factors that contributed to student retention at universities. He found that students who made connections to some aspect of university life outside of classes was the biggest factor in whether they remained at school or left. Essentially that implies that a student's chances of graduating are enhanced by aspects of college life aside from classes.

I'd bet that the vast majority of track and field medalists used to be NCAA athletes or state-sponsored.