HSers John Lester and Cruz Culpepper run 1:48 at Desert Dream

birdbeard wrote:

That's fair. Those are good splits for an 800. Given how hard he was closing on Lester, though, I have to think he could have been in slightly better position with 300 to go and maybe won that race. Who knows.

800m kicks are pretty much always just a result of the person in front of your slowing down not you speeding up. Going harder early tends to result in you just slowing down more at the end. If i had to guess (video isn't good enough) the splits on that second 400m were something like 27/28.5.

These are excellent times. Hopefully we see these kids race each other a bunch over the next 5 years and they keep taking steps forward.

Guessing one will be an 800 specialist and the other will move up to 3k/5k.

birdbeard wrote:

3:56 seems aggressive, but I agree he is in sub-4 shape.

3:55-3:57 is a pretty reasonable range for most milers with 1:48.5 speed. The guys running 3:59 tend to be 1.50 low guys. Hopefully he gets into a fast race in the near future and we see what happens.

predictors wrote:

Guessing one will be an 800 specialist and the other will move up to 3k/5k.

I am guessing both run the 1500m. Maybe lester will develop the sub 48 speed to be a 400m guy or Cruz will decide he likes running 5ks more but I can easily see them both deciding that trying to be 3:36 guys in college is the way to go.

dadsfadsfdasfdsafdas wrote:

birdbeard wrote:

3:56 seems aggressive, but I agree he is in sub-4 shape.

3:55-3:57 is a pretty reasonable range for most milers with 1:48.5 speed. The guys running 3:59 tend to be 1.50 low guys. Hopefully he gets into a fast race in the near future and we see what happens.

Daschbach who i think is a stronger 2 miler, and has run 1:49.x, only got to 3:59.x, granted off a slow pace. So can he also do 3:55-3:57 now?

Cruz is clearly in 3:58 shape or better. I did not realize he had 1:48 speed. (Hunter ran 1:48 as well, and he ran 3:57 but would have run even faster if not for the Lyme Disease. Very impressive. As for Lester, that kid is a talent. Who runs 1:52 his first year of track? He has good speed, but not Brazier like speed, so he will probably end up as an 800-1500m guy, with the focus more on the latter. Of course, who knows at this stage? They should have a setup mile between Daschbach, Cruz, Lester, and the Second Coming.

PointofReference wrote:

Daschbach who i think is a stronger 2 miler, and has run 1:49.x, only got to 3:59.x, granted off a slow pace. So can he also do 3:55-3:57 now?

He ran a 1:49.8+. That is basically a 1:50 auto. I.e. exactly what I said. We are talking about a time that is 1.5s faster than Cruz's 800m time. And for what it is worth I give Dashbach a decent shot at something in the 3:57-3:58 range with better pacing and more opportunities. Closing in the 56s means a second or two were left on the table.

And obviously we have no clue what Daschbach time would be in a competitive 800m . Maybe is closer to 1:49. With the total lack of races we are left making all sorts of guesses.

birdbeard wrote:

Culpepper is great but he suffers a bit from Robbie Andrews-itis. Just sits way too far back in the field and then has too much ground to make up in the last 150-200 in the mile/800. He was coming in hard. I think Cruz could run 1:47.XX based on that finish. Just needs to commit to going out harder.

Oh shut up. I hate know-it-alls like you. He ran perfect splits in that race. He is in 1:48 shape, not 1:47.

So do you run, like, marathons? wrote:

birdbeard wrote:

Culpepper is great but he suffers a bit from Robbie Andrews-itis. Just sits way too far back in the field and then has too much ground to make up in the last 150-200 in the mile/800. He was coming in hard. I think Cruz could run 1:47.XX based on that finish. Just needs to commit to going out harder.

Oh shut up. I hate know-it-alls like you. He ran perfect splits in that race. He is in 1:48 shape, not 1:47.

Agreed. That was not an Andrews race at all. Amateur comment.

I think he ran 52.x/55.x splits. These are good splits. Going out faster would result in a slower overall time.

dadsfadsfdasfdsafdas wrote:

PointofReference wrote:

Daschbach who i think is a stronger 2 miler, and has run 1:49.x, only got to 3:59.x, granted off a slow pace. So can he also do 3:55-3:57 now?

He ran a 1:49.8+. That is basically a 1:50 auto. I.e. exactly what I said. We are talking about a time that is 1.5s faster than Cruz's 800m time. And for what it is worth I give Dashbach a decent shot at something in the 3:57-3:58 range with better pacing and more opportunities. Closing in the 56s means a second or two were left on the table.

And obviously we have no clue what Daschbach time would be in a competitive 800m . Maybe is closer to 1:49. With the total lack of races we are left making all sorts of guesses.

Whoa, why the nasty response? You confirmed what I thought. If there was a season, there might be 2 guys sub 3:58 this year. And then there are Schoppe and Strangio who are very close if not there. And Young and Sprout both likely sub 8:40. A lot of talent.

Lester ran his 4:08 PR while rabbiting for Daschbach's sub 4. He led from 800 to 1000 and then moved over into lane 2 and stayed there around the curve while the others went by in lane 1. He had a couple surges first to get in position to rabbit and then to get out of the way as Boyden was on his shoulder. If he was running his own race he could have gone 4:05 or so. Maybe better.

I love Lester's potential, but the idea that he was any better than 4:08 in that race is silly. They went 2:02.7 off about 60/63 through 800 (not 880) with Lester behind the first pacer, and Lester then only led from 800 to 950, and ran in the outside of lane 1 through that next turn. In other words, it was perfect pacing for him to run that "4:05 or maybe better," and he managed 4:08. Incredible run for him, but let's not get carried away here.

rabbitt wrote:

Lester ran his 4:08 PR while rabbiting for Daschbach's sub 4. He led from 800 to 1000 and then moved over into lane 2 and stayed there around the curve while the others went by in lane 1. He had a couple surges first to get in position to rabbit and then to get out of the way as Boyden was on his shoulder. If he was running his own race he could have gone 4:05 or so. Maybe better.

yahree wrote:

So do you run, like, marathons? wrote:

Oh shut up. I hate know-it-alls like you. He ran perfect splits in that race. He is in 1:48 shape, not 1:47.

Agreed. That was not an Andrews race at all. Amateur comment.

i get how it came across, but really i just am a big fan of Culpepper and think he can go even faster. he ran a good race, maybe that's where it should be left, but i still wonder if he could trade a half second on the last lap for a second or so on the first. 800 is all about dying a slow death.

No. If he goes out in 51. He would be lucky for 1:50.

predictors wrote:

No. If he goes out in 51. He would be lucky for 1:50.

His splits in this race were 53.34 - 55.15 (+1.8s). Pretty close to perfect and admittedly not Robbie Andrews-esque (no negative split here), just put my foot in my mouth. But for myself and the guys I ran with, almost all of us ran PRs with positive splits in the 2-4 second range, with some as extreme as 5s. Rudisha's WR was 49.28 - 51.63 (+2.35). Brazier's AR was 49.21 - 53.13 (+3.92). I don't think it's crazy to suggest Cruz might be in 1:47 shape off a harder first lap.

Lester. Heckuva baseball player too.

Two more. Kipketer's WRs were both pretty extreme:

1:41.25 (48.1, 53.15, positive split of 5.05s)

1:41.11 (49.00, 52.11, positive split of 3.11s)

You think pointing out that their is a difference between a 1:48.5 guy and a 1.50.0 guy is nasty? You might want to work on growing a skin.

And yes this is a crap load of high end talent year. Now some of them would have gotten hurt or not raced well. But you could have put together some very deep fields from 1500 to 5000m. A Daschbach, Sprout, Young, and Cruz (+. the 3 or 4 other guys who have run down around 8:50) would be epic.