Mr. Renato Canova: Could You Please Answer a Question About Effective Ways to Improve the Lactate Threshold?

Speed Kills wrote:

The IAAF has Silva as #8 and Webb as #11. Both ran 3:32-point going into the Olympics.

But what was Silva doing when he was 21?

Advantage Webb.

"in lane 1, american champion with a personal best of 3:32, alan webb. in lane 2, olympic bronze medallist with a best of 3:30, rui silva"

years of consistency at a top level and an olympic medal vs a couple of fast times. silva- game, set and match

webb is very good, and will get better. but in comparison to an olympic medal, it isn't even close.

rick wrote:

"Breathing frequency at this pace will normally be 5-6 steps per exhalation. If a breath is required every 4 steps, the pace is probably too fast, and a slightly tight, uncomfortable feeling may shortly ensue."[quote from Kellogg ]

I am not sure I could WALK 1 hr with that breathing pattern.

3 years ago I adopted a 2 and 2 pattern even for warm up and (knock on wood) haven't had a side stitch since then.

I am not questioning the theory it sounds reasonable. Just wondering if one has to be that nit picking about the steps per breath.

I am,

and

It is nit picking.

Its not what you should be thinking of.

and I even think that JK would agree.

There are hundreds of things young runners should be doing well before they start counting respiration rates

Racer1,

I'm not OLD! :)))

Why don't you enter the debate Frank, Im sure you got as much knowledge as Renato and Antonio. Since you don't coach Marius anymore can you tell us about his training in detail? Im specially interested in the training he did 98-99 when he took the big jump and ran 13.22.

Frank Evertsen wrote:

Racer1,

I'm not OLD! :)))

I did not mean you are "old" as in 90 years of age.

I said "Marius Bakken's old (former) coach" as in, you used to coach him. I know you are not old.

As for the respiration piece, this is only a guideline to check in the midddle of a threshold session for 10-15 steps to see if you are going too hard. I also know some use faster breathing patterns for even easy speeds, which is why I continue to ask Antonio, JK, or Renato what other ways exist to PERCEPTUALLY monitor the sub-threshold effort WITHOUT putting down close to $1000 for a lactate monitor.

Did a quick search on Evertsen and came up with this (same Evertsen?).

Effect of training intensity on muscle lactate transporters and lactate threshold of cross-country skiers

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11683677

Effect of training on the activity of five muscle enzymes studied on elite cross-country skiers

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10606827

Hard training for 5 mo increases Na(+)-K+ pump concentration in skeletal muscle of cross-country skiers.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9176332

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[quote]Dustin Hoffman wrote:

I would check your stats. When he was 21 Rui Silva had ran

3 mins 30.88 secs for 1500m.

quote]

not true, you should check the stats before you post

Rui Silva was born in 1975 and ran:

3:40 in 96

3:44 in 97

3:34 in 98

3:30 in 99

WRONG!

Rui was born 3 August 1977. Now that's a fact!

1999 3:30.88 4rA WK Zürich 11 Aug. That's a fact too!

Check

www.tilastopaja.net

if you don't believe me.

oops, my fault, hmm was pretty sure about that.

he didnt improve more than 0.8 second since the age of 21?

that must be a very thin air at this level..

This is really getting off track of the topic, so whenever Renato or Antonio (or even JK, if he is lurking) reads Mr. Evertson's and my questions, a response would be excellent.

Renato, What is a proper beginning for a track athlete interested in running fast in july (5-10k) ? Your always talking about introduction and fundamental but can you give us examples ?

Speed Kills wrote:

The IAAF has Silva as #8 and Webb as #11. Both ran 3:32-point going into the Olympics.

But what was Silva doing when he was 21?

Advantage Webb.

First, you may understand that IAAF rankings this doesn´t mean nothing. El Guerrouj - he would change all IAAF ranking top 1 for a gold olympic medal. What i´m saying it that for Rui Silva the target goal season that´s medals in Continental Champs, World Champs, or Olympics indoor or outdoor what he did both, and also in 2 distances 1500m and 3000m.

Why do you think that since a long ago almost every year they break world records in Olympic ditsnce events (800m to the marathon) and why do you think that the same contenders, they don´t broke a world record in the Olympics since 1976 Montreal Olimpics. 28 years ago! The runner that did it a last time it was Andrees Garderud from Sweden in the 3000m steeple. Why do you think that this happens, since a long ago that ther´s no WR in the olympics in running distance events? Let me ask: because in the olympics all the best try to be there in their best shape BUT all want to win, that´s a true competition since the gun shoot, that´s not a somewhere meeting in Golden League. In the meetings not all the best are there. There are there those who did an invitation and THOSE who have good managers that manage an acess to those meeting competitions.

Do you think that if all world top runners do have free acess to all meeting that Alan Webb did this season that he will have that same place classification that he did in that meeting? or that he will do 3:32 in that meetings, if ther´s no pacemakers? The answer is in the Athenes olympics...

Now, another detail, what´s IAAF rankings? With your brillant conclusion "Advantage Webb" based on criteria Alan Webb will be in a top place classification in 2004 Track and Field News magazine than Rui Silva - ther´s a real chance, but the real goal tagets - olimpic medals, world medals, world champion - that´s Rui business and not Web, that he is doing that since a long ago, since 21 years old, and we are still waiting for Webb...

Another ridicoulos idea that´s "What was Silva doing with 21 yeras old, AdvantageWebb ?" You may send that idea to the Olympic Comitee, and in the future ther will be "Olympic medals by the age".

The Finn site that you mention Tala....that´s out of date !

If you are intersted in knowing a littel bit about Rui go to

But even that IAAF one that´s not correct. Rui did 7:38 in 3000m and also 13:19 in 5000m.

Rui did win JUST European Champs, World Champs, European medals, world medals and Olympics medals=6 medals total. And he did win also golden league meetings. he did win a 1500m indoor world champ winning over Bernard Lagat among other.

Alan Webb, as far as i know ZERO.

PS- What would you say for Carlos Lopes an olymopic winner at 37 years old ! With 21 years old his PB that´s 4:01 in 1500m !

This Carlos Lopes don´t deserve a medal so old he did that.

Antonio Cabral wrote:

Another ridicoulos idea that´s "What was Silva doing with 21 yeras old, AdvantageWebb ?" You may send that idea to the Olympic Comitee, and in the future ther will be "Olympic medals by the age".

PS- What would you say for Carlos Lopes an olymopic winner at 37 years old ! With 21 years old his PB that´s 4:01 in 1500m !

This Carlos Lopes don´t deserve a medal so old he did that.

Antonio: Good point.

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As I have discussed with a friend, Mr tinman, maybe the reason the USA team did so poorly in the 1500 is the type of training they did just prior to the O-Games, within 4-5 weeks. Have you ever thought of that?

mplatt wrote:

and I even think that JK would agree.

There are hundreds of things young runners should be doing well before they start counting respiration rates

I would think breath recognition should be at the top of the list. We are after all air pumps, and the one who has the combination of the most efficient and the strongest pump wins. Not only should they be shooting at times for letting an exhalation take 5-6 steps, but they should try taking no breath after that for several, then inhale for 5-6 steps, hold the breath for several, then repeat that sequence.

The world doesn't have to be black and white here. On one side we have the group telling our kids "don't think, don't think, don't think, just feel, feel, feel" while on the other side there is the "it doesn't matter what you feel, feel, feel, it matters what the labs can verify."

I think the truth lies in the crack between these two worlds.

Jzs wrote:

As I have discussed with a friend, Mr tinman, maybe the reason the USA team did so poorly in the 1500 is the type of training they did just prior to the O-Games, within 4-5 weeks. Have you ever thought of that?

Jzs

I think that you point the finger to the problem.

People with responsabilities what that concerns - USA Ttrack and Field Federation, national team coaches, the coaches of those runners, experts, opinion makers, and all public - may answer to that questions

WHAT went wrong in the Olympics with USA 1500m runners?

WHY so poor performances in Athens - that´s not normal?

A deep analysis WHAT and WHY went wrong with american 1500m runners, - at technical training level - may be done. You can´t go ahed without a deep analysis or you will miss the point.

Rui Silva did a tremendous Olympic performance, despite he did need to skip and resume almost all workout specifics (hard stuff) during the last 3 weeks, he just did a few competitions and easy runs and easy workouts - but not too much. This slow down in the last training period that did work good for Rui.

But you see, that´s hard that all institutions (federations and so) and institutional coaches (those who coach that runners) to recognise that they did fail somewhere, somehow.