Additional point:
sucka busta wrote:
Well lets see. Starting with Trackhead, you call me an asshole. You are the one using this message board to sell videos and running shoes. Why the BroJos haven't kicked you off for not paying them anything for using this board as your own private market place I will never know. To me that is very underhanded and well makes you an asshole.
My, how subversive. Using a running forum to sell running-related items.
The horror.
dear mr. canova,
you said about zersenay tadesse "his 2nd place was due to his value, not to the mistake of other athletes". so do you think he can lower his PB/NR 13:05/27:22? and do you think he can medal in helsinki?
not only mr. canova, i would like to know the opinions of racer1, vipam and mr. michael bautsia, who seem to follow the development of east african runners.
thank you very much!
I would say Zersenay Tadesse can run at least 26:40 for the 10000 meters.
trackhead, can you post the training programs that Renato sent you through e-mail?
He didn't really send a program -- I just asked questions about his coaching and he told me about how he works with his athletes (mileage, workouts, etc)
trackhead wrote:
He didn't really send a program -- I just asked questions about his coaching and he told me about how he works with his athletes (mileage, workouts, etc)
Is it possible you can post this?
Yo MC Renato what is the deal yo? Is the Qatar the new Rift valley?
Qatari
Easy to complain about Bahrein but what about Qatar ?
They do the same specialy with the guy from Burundi. He is born in 1983 and now he runs with 1985.
Racer 1,The irony of this situation is that you are making this thread more worthless than I am by just responding to what I am writing. Thus continuing this stupidity. Hmm.. Do you think getting a rise out of an idiot like you was my intention all along ? The difference is Trackhead was smart enough not to respond to what I said about him.
I know that many my athletes don't have a correct date of birth on their passport, also some Kenyan that was able to win World Junior Championships. But this regards their FIRST PASSPORT, and in this case is not possible to control. But the situations of Qatar and Bahrain are very different. The athletes coming from African Countries to Qatar arrived with their OLD PASSPORT, and Qatari government NEVER CHANGED THEIR DATES OF BIRTH. The ministry of interior takes the old passports, changes the names of the athletes but keeps the personal datas that are in the old passport. Instead, Bahrain changes the dates voluntarly, for having athletes able to compete for more long time in age competitions. The most obvious case regards Gregory Konchellah, well known in the world like born in 1983. Last year Bahrain changed is official date of birth in.... 1987 for putting him in Juniors, but he refused, and became the second in the World. Of sure, I don't like this fraudolent mentality.
Renato, if you have time now that you are back from World X-C's, can you post the schedules of Saif Saaeed Shaheen, Nicholas Kemboi, and James Kwalia?
I have learned a lot to apply to my own training from this.
What Racer1 nothing to say? That is what I thought. Guys like you are all the same asking great coaches advice that you have no way to comprehend or use in your own training. Why don't you all just wise and realize that the Kenyans are superior both by genetic and pharmaceutical means.
because they're not
and i never advertise
About WCCC and Bekele – I did saw that alive. I´ve been there. Actually since 1973 to 2005 I saw them all – or by the TV or alive – I just did miss the 1975 Morocco edition.
Of course that WCCC year after year they did win the status of the Toughest Race in the World.
I think that the WCC runs is as hard to win or harder as any other continental competition or the Olympics track, or road – besides that´s an open run with no heats and with a large country participation than the continental games or the Olympics.
About Bekele I just think that he is the - all time world best in a range of long distances from 5kilos to 15kilos – all terrain, track, cross, road.
Who is the one that did such achievements in just 4 seasons ? No one.
That´s very curious that during the past decade I taught that what Gebre did that put´s him as all time best, but it comes someone that is even better than Gebre - Bekele. He is able to be in shape all year round, not just in the summer season as some they do. He is able to compete and to win or dispute the win no matter what is the course terrain type. Ask Gebre or El Guerrouj or Lasse Viren if that´s easy to win in track and cross or ask Tergat if that´s easy to win in both cross and road and be also as good as in the track and in the meantime produce 2 world records in 5000m and 10000m both distances. And ask who is the one that did win most of the 5000m-10000m in the world champs and in the Olympics - except 5000m Athens that Bekele did 2nd – and that did get the both 5000m and 10000m world records quite easily – that same 5000m and 1000m world records that Gebre and all the rest they did put that in top level during the last decade with dozens of attempts as Bekele did. No one. But in the meantime he wins 8 WCCC titles in 4 years with 1 day distance from the short and the long run this is superior to all past or present runners did.
Despite that the Bekele running career didn´t end yet and in the future he can run more road runs or try HM and the Marathon, in my opinion Bekele he is all time best right now.
In my opinion the Renato´s argument that he did loose the 5000m in Athens for El Guerrouj or that he is slow in middle-distance is quit irrelevant. Renato in another posts about the PBs in different distance events than our main target goal event(s) – he said that the PBs you have in that different distance events than your main even that is out of consideration for the runner talent and that PBs are overrated - but now, commenting Bekele he bases his consideration also in the fact that Bekele have slower PBs in 1500m/mile-3000m than Gebre and most of the top runners, or that Tergat or Ngugi they did best in cross that Bekele. Do you know what´s Tergat 1500m PB ? 3:42 – slower than Bekele. Don´t forget that Tergat in 8 senior attempts did five wins but also 10th (1993) 4th (1994) and 3rd (2000) and that John Ngugi in 7 attempts did also five wins but 20th place (1990) and DNF (1991). I think I don´t need to mention Gebre so ppor are their participations in cross relate to Bekele. And of course that´s impossible for Bekele to have wined more than 8 titles in 4 years.
The fact that Bekele is a bit slow in short distances than his main event distances and have no such a finish quick over the last 100 to 200m as Gebre did and other they do this make him even of more consideration.
One final comment that you need to take in consideration about K. Bekele. That´s the fact that in his caracther he is a true champion that is able to overcome the adversity. As you know her fiancée died recently. That fact and the fact that despite that he is able to win both runs makes him a real champion – he was able to fight the adversity and direct his strong will to win both St. Etienne runs.
About Ritz and all the rest of the Americans – people are discussing so much about Ritz as he have any responsibility to win.
I have just one word to resume Ritz result in the WCCC. Inexperience. He did start fast as he might done, he did run without soaks that causes him blisters. Ther´s no excuse about the blisters, that´s not the blisters that made him start faster than he should – but let me tell you ther´s nothing as soaks to run. But I also think that some other amrican runners runners – young american runners - they did good in that long cross event. As taht´s the case of Matt Withrow (not yet 20 years old) as the case of Ian Dobson (as old as Ritz)-
Let´s take a look about Ritz split pace relate to Bekele and the first non- African Sergey Lebid and try to understand how he did run.
Bekele split laps
> 6:26 - 5:45 - 5:46 - 5:51 - 5:38 - 5:40=35:06
Lebid split laps
> 6:34 - 5:57 - 6:00 - 6:03 - 6:05 - 5:54=36:33
Ritz split laps
> 6:27 - 5:57 - 6:20 - 6:23 - 6:41 - 6:48=38:46
Knowing that the first lap that´s longer Bekele did from 2nd lap to the 5th lap a 23sec range average (5:38 to 5:51), being the 4th and 5th laps the fast ones. Bekele did 11sec range (6:05 - 5:54) being the last lap the fast one ands Ritz did 1min 03sec range, being the last ones the slower ones ! Now, the splits shows that Ritz did start faster than he might have done. But that´s the inexperience and the mistake that´s to feel that the first laps he were able to follow the leading group.
Antonio Cabral wrote:
Knowing that the first lap that´s longer Bekele did from 2nd lap to the 5th lap a 23sec range average (5:38 to 5:51), being the 4th and 5th laps the fast ones. Bekele did 11sec range (6:05 - 5:54) being the last lap the fast one ands Ritz did 1min 03sec range, being the last ones the slower ones ! Now, the splits shows that Ritz did start faster than he might have done. But that´s the inexperience and the mistake that´s to feel that the first laps he were able to follow the leading group.
When i say from the second lap to the 5th lap you shall read from the 2nd lap to the 6th lap of course.
sucka busta wrote:
What Racer1 nothing to say? That is what I thought. Guys like you are all the same asking great coaches advice that you have no way to comprehend or use in your own training. Why don't you all just wise and realize that the Kenyans are superior both by genetic and pharmaceutical means.
I am amused to see a training-related jab from you, "sucka busta", as you have led us all to believe that your idea of "top training" consists in jabbing oneself in various orifices with needles.
As much as you may celebrate your status as a dual drug addict/runner (if you even run), I have every confidence that I know more than you about training and how to apply it in real world applications.
As for your final "suggestion," I have 3 for you:
1. Go to Kenya and train with the athletes. Watch them work and watch them compete without drugs. Install video cameras in the team rooms if you must. Then you will see that Bekele and Sihine, doing 7K time trials at altitude passing 5K in 13:22, do it off hard work and nothing more.
2. Genetics? You frame this as though one is "cheating" based on the endurance qualities bestowed them by their parents.
Like most everything you say, this is ludicrous.
3. Grow up. Spend some time doing something more with your life than maligning strangers who have accomplished more than you can ever dream of. You are despicable for what you say and sadly, you do not even see it.
Thanks Antonio, EXCELLENT POST!!
Bekele IS the greatest ever (for now). His performances are beyond exceptional, they are truly the acts of a once-in-a-lifetime athletic "god."
People talk of Bekele's speed being not as good as some other distance stars??? I am REALLY NOT SURE about that. YES, his kick is not as good as 3:43 miler El G, but that did not surprise me. But didn't he run the Athens 10k finishing in 52/53??? And he FLAT-OUT blew Gebrselassie away in Paris 10k with his kick. NO contest, he opened up a 10m gap on one turn.
Even in Paris 5k, it was not his kick that cost him, but his tactics. He let El G pick the exact moment that El G wanted to kick at, allowed El G to open 5m gap, allowed Kipchoge to cut in from him right at the bell lap, and then attempted to pass them both on the end of the final turn(instead of waiting for straight) leading into the final straight, which forced him into the 3rd/4th lane.
Despite ALL of those mistakes, he lost by what?? .5 second?? His final lap was again about 52/53.
He HAS speed, and he HAS a kick also. But he should not RELY completely on it against the likes of El G when he can beat him with other tactics.
Bekele can run a 1500 as fast as Gebr is he chooses to.
Hmm, makes me wonder if Antonio ever seen Bekele run. Bekele's speed is one of his biggest weapons, he is clearly faster than Geb. In Lusanne last year, probably the fastest 100m ever by a distance-runner between 4700m and 4800m.
You look at Tergat's 1500m PR, he never run that event seriously, if he would probably around 3.32-3.33. And Bekele Im sure he could run at least 3.28
"And Bekele Im sure he could run at least 3.28"
Where do you GET these numbers!?!
So now Bekele is better than Seb Coe at the distance Coe won 2 Olympic Golds at?!?