Mr. Renato Canova: Could You Please Answer a Question About Effective Ways to Improve the Lactate Threshold?

shaheen wrote:

Antonio there are others here than Tinman....

He is not going to ask the question how often you think LT-training should be done. So please give us others the answer...

LT training that´s very easy “TRAINABLE”. You start working in that training variant improvement to a certain extend. After a few sessions doing that (let´s say near an half douzen) you are “quite confortable” in that threshold pace to a certain extend/distance or activity duration close to that same threshold activity , but consequently you don´t improve your shape dramatically by keeping on and on the use of that pace in your schedule, insisting in that pace very frequently, and this is more true if LT runs are the only one specific workouts. You are confined to run very steady in that ananerobic threshold pace intensity, you are able to train those LT sessions almost daily or 3-4-5 times a week. But when that´s the time to compete, since you are doing lots of LT runs your improvement and PBs in a certain “plateau” you get there easily. So, at a certain point in your career LT runs are just as aerobic runs – their eficience is just “training maintenance”.

If you take a beginner runner that starts to do Lt mainly as specifc training training specifics, let´s say that almost instantaneously up to 2 year seasons, that beginner runner for the Lt training - eventaully he will do a tremendous progress, personal PBs, season PB´s.

But that improvement that´s not so consistent as some may think, that´s not a sustain progress.

Further up/later on he or she will be hard to keep improvement high.

I know lots of examples among top runners as well as beginners runners.

As long as your the progress keeps on going you think that´s find what you are doing – using LT runs a lot – but ther´s a moment sooner or later that improvement as soon as that it happens soon will go away.

LT that´s “volatile”, that´slike a perfume, goes with the wind…

That LT stimulus that´s no more effective, efficient, that´s no more a stimulus at all. That´s why, in my opinion, you must start to use workouts in paces faster than AnT since from the start if you want to keep in progress later in the season, or later in your career. That´s why I say that if you insist too much in Lt runs as a first training priority you are waisting your time. As far as I know most recent american runners they think that LT runs are the ultimate as training running distance.

Well, now the coin reverse. LT train that are easy “trainable” and that you reach a certain “plateau” quickly, but the reverse coin is that if you quit off to train that periodically, prmanently, you will loose that LT run condition or capacity very soon. That´s “VOLATILE”. That´s why I say that you need to train and insist in LT runs all the time, all the season but with moderation in their frequence use – lots of cases once a week that´s enough.

Once again this is an overview and of basic principles. Each case that´s an individual case, and also each distance event needs a diferent training modulation.

I think that now I did explain my original idea “If you train Lt runs more than once or twice a week you are waisting your time”. I guess that I didn´t use too much physiologic justifications this time, but I never know…That´s hard to convince those who know lots of physiology as to convince those who don´t.

It will be easy if I train one or two WR or Olimpic winners as Renato.

I would another status and you will pay more attention. To train top class runners that works better than any clear justification. That´s a supposed authority about the subject.

But as from world top class runners i just did coach portuguese Fernando Couto, he was just (!) a 13:22 past olympic runner in 1988 Seul Olympics, and as actually from the world top class runners i just advise the portuguese marathon runner Alberto Chaiça and he just (!) did 4th in last 2003 Paris WC in the marathon and recently he just (!) did just 8th in last Athens Olimpics a few weks ago, winning just over Paul Tergat and Gharib and over 2 americans - I do no credentials to aproach LT training.

Well I never did train kenyans or other africans…as Renato or Gabrielle Rosa, Tergat coach. May be one day who knows?…

Of course that I´m pround of these runners but also all the others that I did train or that I train actually – but to be sincerely not all are that success. I don´t want to catch unsucess like the other coach hipocrites, and that worries me - but I´m very pround when they achieve their goal targets.

But the case here is that if eventually I would do coach Rui Silva or El Guerrouj or Bekele or Baldini or that´s enough that i say just a "non-sense" then you all will agree and pay much more attention to my posts.

Antonio Cabral

Renato Canova wrote:

The rest among every test is only the time that you need for taking blood from the ear (normally from 45.0 to 1 min), the same after the last 2000m before 1200m. We need continuity in this type of test, because we have to investigate what can happen running long time at an even pace well precised before, so the ideal test could be running without stopping the action, but in this case is not possible to take blood.

Do you feel this is a good workout below?

I have had a favorite workout of 16km (10 miles) with the first 14.4km at slightly faster than marathon pace, then the last 1.6km (1 mile) very fast. I have also run 21km and also 8km this same way, at marathon or halfmarathon pace and then the last 1.6km very fast.

Would you say this workout is fine as it is, or would it be improved with inserting some breaks, or a break before the last 1.6km?

Thank you.

To clarify, I'm asking this of Renato and Antonio.

The first part 14.4km is very even, moderately hard and not easy, then the last 1.6km very hard.

Also I would do this once a week.

Would this be better with breaks, or a break before the last part.

Thanks.

This seems like a tough workout just 5 days before a marathon. Plus, what if the tests show less than desirable results with little time to change anything. Wouldn't that be stressful for the athlete or is the goal to use the test to determine the goal marathon pace.

Antonio, I think you explained it quite well and I agree the LT training is not the end-all most important part of training. I do think it is an important part of acquiring an aerobic base, as you can see by the great talent of Kenyans like Sammy Kipketer who begin their training already able to run 13:30 without formal talent.

I think you do not need to have any Kenyans to be listened to.

A great coach helps his athletes improve, whether the athlete runs 40:00 for 10K and improves to 36:00 or 28:00 and gets to 26:30 (like Kemboi with Renato). A 40:00 10K runner who gets down to 36:00 has a great coach. Renato is a great coach because he takes athletes already talented and makes them better. You are a great coach because you do likewise.

Renato Canova wrote:

The rest among every test is only the time that you need for taking blood from the ear (normally from 45.0 to 1 min), the same after the last 2000m before 1200m. We need continuity in this type of test, because we have to investigate what can happen running long time at an even pace well precised before, so the ideal test could be running without stopping the action, but in this case is not possible to take blood.

Renato if you have the time myself and one other reader asked about the main focus of your athletes' offseasons.

You have shown us, for example, the day to day INSEASON programs of athletes like Shaheen, but really, foundations are laid in the offseason when fitness is acquired. What training is used then, whether it be for the threshold or some other aerobic or strength quality?

Thank you for your help.

Renato Canova wrote:

running 6 times 2000m with acustic rabbit

please tell me how do i find this acustic rabbit

Antonio and Renato, thank you for the time you take to post. You both have been quite helpful.

bugs bunny wrote:

Renato Canova wrote:

running 6 times 2000m with acustic rabbit

please tell me how do i find this acustic rabbit

Bugs bunny

Just a pratic idea that can solve the problem, you don´t need to buy an accustic or light rabbit.

I use a whistle. That´s cheaper, less expensive, no great apparatus, don´t boder others on the track.

Take and whistle and a chrono watch to the trcak - and put a friend or a girlfriend or a coach, with the diferent pace splits you want to do. Split times for each 100m of a track.

With so, you hear the wistle sound just "IN the split pace" and you will know if you are in the split, faster or slower - and you will be able no manage all workouts in event pace. For unexpirienced runners that start the sets faster than they should (faster than event pace) and after a while they decrease the pace intensity i also advise this method - to use a whistle for split times.

Antonio Cabral

thank you very much!

Renato Canova wrote:

Regarding the Threshold, we must agree about what this term means. Conventionally, Aerobic Threshold (that I call AT) is about 2 mmol, Anaerobic Threshold (that I call AnT) is about 4 mmol. But, if you for example go to test a runner of 100 km (I make programs for the World Champion, the Italian Mario Fattore), and you ask him to run at his max. speed some 400m, HE IS NOT ABLE TO OVERTAKE THE CONVENTIONAL AnT. This is because his training is monodirectional, and aerobic enzymes (expecially SDH) can inhibit COMPLETELY the enzymes like LDH.

Would it be possible for you to post the program of Fattore? It would be greatly appreciated.

Hi!

Can anybody(renato, racer1,tinman?) recomend me some Threshold-workouts for my training in oktober, november dec. etch???

This winter I`m going to have 2-3 "low" Lactate Threshold session(lactat level 1-3mmol) and one medimum Lactate Threshold session Lactat level 5-7 each week!

So I would be glad to hear anybodys opinion on workouts?

Thanks:)

I`m a 8.40 steepler my self!

kub

dunes runner wrote:

To clarify, I'm asking this of Renato and Antonio.

The first part 14.4km is very even, moderately hard and not easy, then the last 1.6km very hard.

Also I would do this once a week.

Would this be better with breaks, or a break before the last part.

Thanks.

Dunes

I no able to answer you really. I don´t take that risk, to advise you an unfitable advise.

When I start training a athlete before to build a whole schedule or each single workout I need to know

1/RUNNING ATHLETE PROFILE – what´s your age, weight and tall, environment conditions, social conditions, past training history, past training methods, training facilities and so - all your individual physical and temperamental characteristics ?

2/ATHLETE COMPETITION GOAL TARGET – what are your goal targets, what are the distance and the king of running you take as your goal target. That´s track, road or cross, that´s 800m - 1500m, hill running (mountain); that´s a local race or a Olympic run; that´s a marathon or a road mile? What kind of course, what´s the course terrain?

3/ATHLETE SEASON PERIODISATION – in what periods he divided his plan to approach that target goal and during what time and what´s change (training modulation and training periodisation)

4/WHAT´S THAT SINGLE WORKOUT IN THE WHOLE TRAINING PLAN CONTEXT - Then, “that 14.4km with last mile very hard” training session what the meaning and what´s the training target – That´s a Lt workout? That´s a aerobic session with a fast final in Race Pace? I don´t know?

5/TO PAY ATTENTION TO TRAINING FRQUENCE AND THE “INVISIBLE TRAINING” The older and experienced I am, I pay lots of attention and care to TRAINING FREQUENCE ( the number of sessions during a micro cycle (week, 10 days cycles etc,) the global TRAINING INTENSITY; the REVOVER needed; the REST and so.

6/Finnaly a training plan that´s a whole. The one who imagine that 14.4km session that you mention (eventually you) let´s think that he is not an idiot or that he design that workout just by pure imagination – he got a plan based on some principles and his training knowledge. Thus, no one except him (eventually you) – can answer to that ultimate question “What´s that workout for?”, and no one better than him can understand why he build up that particular workout and no other. So, in the limit, all people exterior/external to that “plan” me, or Renato, or the worlds best coach can´t answer that properly, but just the one that design that. That´s my opinion. But if thare any curious that will take the risk….to answer you that question, that´s his responsibility. What I don+t that that risk that´s you follow a training plan that (ket´s say) 95% designed by a coach (or you) and only let´s say 5% by me. That´s an explosive mix-up with no really benefits.

In principle, the one that coach the other (or self coach) that who may take all schedule responsability. Can´t have an exterior interference.

I hope that you did respect my opinion and you know now why I don´t answer this kind of questions.

Antonio Cabral

bump up to the top

Good thread, need to add this to the permanent list at the top of the page.

Dear Mr. Canova,

Could you explain for me what kind of lactate meter you are using to do your meassurments with, f. ex. during the Baldini test?

Bumping this to the top.

mr.ROADRUNNER (Antonio Cabral),

I think that his temper forced him to stop writing to the Marius Bakken´s site. He takes all too personally.

I don´t get mad if somebody writes bull++++ to me. And oh, that has been happened a lot!

Antonio and Renato, I am still hoping you can tell me what is the focus of your athletes in the non-racing months?

Can you give examples?

Thanks.