RENATO CANOVA INTERVIEW- ". I can put my hands on fire" to prove these althletes are clean

this will be deleted

RE: How Do the 2:03/2:04 Guys Train 4/6/2009 10:24AM - in reply to fat old fatty Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

this thread will be delted because it has been deleted 25 times already. here is someone naming names.

"Janko Bensa

RE: Ethiopians and Drug testing conspiracy theorists 3/2/2008 2:50PM - in reply to Renato Canova Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Renato Canova wrote:

"Last thing, regarding ‚Ä‚¥"xƒsƒ"f fusan Chepkemei @‚s‚ˆ‚… @‚„‚ ‚ ‚‰‚Ž‚‡ @‚ ‚† @Susan Chepkemei : she took a medicine for cough when already not in training because pregnant. The same happened to Lydia Cheromei two years ago. Do you think that the rules of WADA and IAAF in these cases are correct ? Do you think that some lady goes to assume doping when pregnant, when she knows that doesnt compete for the next 2 years, may be for making a baby champion ?"

You might be write when you say that Susan Chepkemei was suspende taking cought medecine. I feel sorry for that, I wish they caught her when she was doing EPO. She still didn't get what she deserves.

I have been keeping my mouth closed for years, but I had to respond on your posting since I can't stand anyone defending people doing drugs for years.

I happened to stay with Susan in the same house in 2004. At that time there were only my family (my wife and 2 years old child, both of which are not athletes), I and Susan at the house. Not to mention that one day in the fridge my two year old accidently found around 15 injections 10000IU of EPO each. When owner of the house, who was on long vacation, came back and discovered the same thing in the fridge, asked Susan to take her "staff" somewhere else and also asked her to leave the house. For those five weeks Susan made about $40000-$50000 running races in USA.

So, please stop defending her."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Chepkemei

Read more:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=2959120&page=1#ixzz1v5enk92a

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Azaleas wrote:

Please name the last time you saw an ad for Epogen.

I don't read or listen to any drug ads.

How about you?

Her jaw looks a little suspicious. There is a photo of Canova with one of his athletes on LetsRun main page. The African athlete has a very bloated face, typical of a steroid user.

In the case of Susan Chepkemei, you have reason. I believed in what she told me, and this was not true. But I never had anything to do with Susan, instead I have many things to do with Lydia Cheromei, and in that case I know very well what happened.... You must only know she had her baby 8 months after the antidoping test, so you can have the final picture from yourself !

About my picture with Abel Kirui, "he has a bloated face typical of a steroid user", there is really no limit to the human stupidity. In Kenya the most part of athletes don't have to eat, and when they have the opportunity to go in a camp they improve a lot, primarly because finally they can eat. And in this way, athletes unknown can run immediately under 2:08 in Marathon, only because their training can be supported by some food, and they can have a better recovery. And you speak about steroids ?

The biggest mistake of the morons in US is to think the life in Africa is like in our Countries. Try to understand here is difficult to find the normal items we can find in Europe. For example, if we need a very normal medicine for cough, we can find only something normally made in India, since the big European Companies (I dont know for which reason : may be they have the same product using another name) are not findable in "Duka la Dawa" (the name of the pharmacies).

For having some synthetic drug in Kenya, produced by Pharma Companies, you need an organisation that is not possible to have in this Country. May be somebody can have his manager behind ? In this case, how to explain the vastity of people running so fast, the most part of them with very small managers, moving from one to another seeking some opportunity, because they don't have money enough for living ?

I repeat : you continue to speak about something really don't know, and this makes you incredible idiots.

About the advantage big Chemical Companies can have from doping, I want only to say one thing : the Olympic Committee, and the Antidoping Agency, asked to all the Companies to put a clear marker on every confection if there was some substance considered doping. The 99% OF THE COMPANIES REFUSED. Why ? Because they use many athletes as testimonials for the benefit of their products, but the big market is not with the athletes, is with normal people knowing never there is antidoping test for them, that don't fear bad effects on their health (if the fright for the health could be a deterrent, why so many people are on drugs ?) but want to have the benefit of some doping for becoming like the athletes : people in the gyms, for example, that want to see their muscles growing and don't do any professional sport (steroids) ; or cyclists that want to go faster only for personal satisfaction (EPO). This kind of people repersents the mpost important market for the Pharma Companies, that represent the third big business in the World.

For example, about hematocrit : there was a question in this thread : "so you think that there is no effect if the hematocrit can raise ?". I had a lot of blood tests, year ago, with several athletes, including, for example, Christopher Koskei, winner of WCh 1999 in 3000m steeple. IN ALL THE CASES, IMPROVING THEIR SHAPE, THE HEMATOCRIT WENT DOWN. I think I published the data in some congress, and I think I sent Malmo the tests.

This happens because with training the most talented athletes increase their total volume of blood of 20/25%. This happens, I repeat, for all the best athletes in the World : this possibility is connected with their morphology, and is part of a different basic talent.

Having all these experiences, with my athletes improving and their hematocrit going down, how can you suppose I can believe in the effects of drugs increasing the hematocrit ?

Canova, you don't seem to understand rudimentary physiology at times. Is this feigned ignorance on your part? Surely it is an attempt to manipulate the "morons" whom you dismiss, at times, correctly, as ignorant, but for those of us who aren't, you'd be better off not posting some of your rubbish.

hopefully the record of you in history is accurate

That people realise you are a systemic cheat who is well entrenched in the system and looked after by both IAAF and your sponsor shoe company alike as well as your home federation and its resources.

You fit a role for the money men. Hope this is satisfactory.

i woud imagine that most east african elites start off with high haematocrits living at altitude

i agree that synthetic EPO woud have little effect on them as their bone marrow is already working overtime from higher endogenous EPO to pump out the RBC to counter the altitude

i woud tentatively conclude, as you say, that EPO woud have little benefit, unless taken in huge doses ( & this woud be dangerous as well as prohibitively expensive - at least $5000 for a decent "cycle" & you'd need to repeat ) - i certainly don't think the doses that low-altitude living european descent athletes may take woud improve the east africans performance much, if at all

however, i do believe steroids woud make a big difference to 800/1500 guys anywhere

there are so many east africans who have gone 1'43.0 or 3'30 & look pretty anorexic ( look at asbel !!! ) - they seem to run this on natural ability ( speed-endurance )

i have little doubt if asbel took steroids with anything like a decent weights programme he woud be running 1'42.0/3'26 from the increased power

this gives me belief that few east africans dope ( steroids - EPO of little use ), because if they did, we woud be seeing a lotta 1'41/1'42 from pure 800 guys ( maybe even a 1'40 ) & 3'26/3'27 from the pure 1500 guys ( maybe even 3'25 )

ventolin^3 wrote:

i woud imagine that most east african elites start off with high haematocrits living at altitude

i agree that synthetic EPO woud have little effect on them as their bone marrow is already working overtime from higher endogenous EPO to pump out the RBC to counter the altitude

This study, on the other hand, indicates that people living at altitude have a higher response to EPO.

i woud tentatively conclude, as you say, that EPO woud have little benefit, unless taken in huge doses

You're drawing conclusions based on what nothing more than your own imagination.

In reality you need lower doses of EPO to achieve the same results at altitude than you do at sea level.

idiot

that is a study on patients with end stage renal disease & starting haematocrits of little above 30

NOT

immensely fit young guys with 1'43 or 3'30 capability with starting haematocrits of near 50

Renato Canova wrote:

For having some synthetic drug in Kenya, produced by Pharma Companies, you need an organisation that is not possible to have in this Country. May be somebody can have his manager behind ?

?

An european coach checked this, he used 20 minutes to find epo in kenya.

Epo is now a cheap drug, copies are mass produced in china.

There is alot of cheap epo around on the black market, even in the US, and it is alot easier to obtain in third world countries.

Alot of american runners use epo, and know its effect.

Cut the bullshit canova.

How is that at all relevant?

The drug raises hematocrit. It is known to do this in patients with renal disease as well as in healthy people.

For patients with renal disease the effect of the drug is higher at altitude, as the study shows.

On what basis do you conclude that this would not be the case for healthy people?

You, on the other hand, are claiming that the effect is lower or non-existent at altitude based solely on your own incredulity.

moron

we are concerned with ultra-fit 20 - 25y ole 1'43.0 or 3'30.0 guys not 50+ ones with severe anaemia, weakness, lethargy, malaise with twice weekly dialysis, etc...

the latter have so many other factors to consider which may alter epo response at altitude - relative angiotensinogen level, angiotensin-inhibiting enzyme efficacy, hyperkalaemia, hypocalcaemia, hypophosphataemia, fluid overload, probable hypertension, acidosis, etc at altitude

NONE of which are present in group we are interested in

by chance i'm going to a lecture by the local hospital's lead nephrologist today

i'll be sure to ask him that "an expert" thinks study on epo use in esrd with altitude considerations is relevant to ultra-fit guys with perfect health at altitude

if he can peel himself off the floor after rolling all over it laughing his ass off, i'll be sure to quote his reply...

The idea that elite athletes would respond differently to EPO than someone who is seriously ill is not on the face of it unreasonable.

However, through usage in the real world it has been firmly established that EPO will in fact lead to higher hematocrit in elite athletes and also enhance performance.

Now you are making the spectacular claim that while this is true at sea level it wouldn't be the case at altitude. And to support this notion you offer no evidence at all, but only your ability to imagine that it might be so.

But we know that EPO leads to higher hematocrit for the sick as well as for elite athletes at sea level. And the study I linked indicates that for the specific patients they tested the effect was even stronger at altitude.

Your claim that EPO suddenly stops doing what it does in all other cases when applied specifically to elite athletes living at altitude is an "interesting" one, and I'd like to see some actual evidence for it.

Epo actually works much better in healthy persons, meaning you need much less dose than sick people for the same hematocrit increase. When the body is busy fighting cancer, it has a hard time churning out red blood cells.

Just try on yourself, if you have fever or flu, you barely respond at all.

Dosing in oncology and dialysis patients is usually 30000iu/week. A fit runner can LOAD with 6000-8000iu per week.

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Renato, you often say that we shouldn´t speak about something we don´t know. Then I want to ask you how you know that Lasse Viren used blood doping. You have said that several times. I understand that you now who among the the italian runners that used blood doping, but how do you know that Viren did?

The market for EPOGEN for performance enhancement is absolutely miniscule compared to its market in treating sick people. Why anybody would think pharmacuetical companies would encourage doping as a marketing strategy is beyond me.

Pharmacuetical companies will not add marker molecules to their drugs because it might cause unwanted side effects and it would mean expensive retesting for safety and efficacy. Companies can't just add markers to their drugs adn continue selling them as before--they have to go through regulatory approval again.

None of that is meant to suggest that any specific athlete is or is not doping.

Mr. Obvious wrote:

The market for EPOGEN for performance enhancement is absolutely miniscule compared to its market in treating sick people. Why anybody would think pharmacuetical companies would encourage doping as a marketing strategy is beyond me.

You are missing the point completely, which I told you before.

The point their marketing is not to get athletes to take drugs, because anyway, the most of top runners are interested in being healthy and performance. Rather they are being used - and abused, as I pointed out to you - for PROMOTIONAL reasons.

Of course the market for the drugs is not with the runners. Even if they did take the drugs, they would soon see that their performances are worse and then stop taking them. So that is a danger to the chemical companies, who deal only with falsehoods, lies and misleading people.

So instead of that they promote their drug accusations schemes, trying to say that some athletes are using drugs to help performances - which is not true because it is IMPOSSIBLE - along with their bogus tests that don't have any scientific basics. Even the protocols for the tests are not seeing the light of day, because they are so obscure and ridiculous.

Still no response from Renato on the efficacy of thyroid replacement, testosterone replacement within legal limits, and research chems like low dose S4, repeatedly rumored to be used by Salazar trained athletes.

This after numerous deleted posts.