Mr. Renato Canova: Could You Please Answer a Question About Effective Ways to Improve the Lactate Threshold?

Why are you simultaneously kissing Renato's ass (listing him as "best distance coach in the world") and then accusing his runners of cheating by using EPO (suggested by your posting name of "EPO cheat Kenyan") ????

Bizarre.

My name has nothing to do with Mr.Canova. It is a sarcastic name I have been using on Letsrun for quite sometime. It has always been my way of making fun of the American attitude of always accusing those better than them of drug use.

NOW that being said I do truely think Renato is the best coach in the world.

For me the best coach is a guy who trained a kid and get him on top level.

Not a person who just train kenyans or athletes of a certain level. I prefer Antonio Cabral at least he deals with athletes from any levels.

Canova is a good coach but not the best.

Peter Coe was also a good coach but only for his son.

EPO cheat Kenyan wrote:

My name has nothing to do with Mr.Canova. It is a sarcastic name I have been using on Letsrun for quite sometime. It has always been my way of making fun of the American attitude of always accusing those better than them of drug use.

NOW that being said I do truely think Renato is the best coach in the world.

Will you write some gags for me please? You truly are a comic genius.

schrawtz is not tinmans last nanme

what??? wrote:

schrawtz is not tinmans last nanme

Yes it is.

Let me run an idea by everyone; perhaps Weldon could set this up as one big dicussion/chat between John Kellogg, John Hadd, Antonio Cabral, Renato Canova, Tinman, Joe Rubio, ET, Jack Daniels, and all these great coaches.

Do it on this thread but have a big discussion about general training approach and iron out programs for specific situations.

Any seconds?

I'm in Iten, and this night there is power (during last 4 days no power for the continuous rain), so I can read your messages. At first, please, don't do any graduatory about "the best coach in the world". This is useless and of sure not correct. I know a lot of coaches that have good knowledge and never the opportunity to follow top runners. Of course, I (like Rosa) had the possibility of growing in some specific knowledge only after coaching many Kenyans. My merit was to seek and to find this opportunity, that can be considered a choice of life. And of course, when you can "manage" the preparation of many and different top runners, you can have new experiences and sometimes a new mentality.

To coach Africans is easy if you think that the goal is to beat Europeans runners, but is more difficult under other points of view. In any case, it's a completely different thing.

You become a good coach when enjoy the improvement of your athletes not for yourself, but for them. You must be a friend, a teacher, a guide, before being a scientist, and this is particularly true with African people. They are very simple, and the first quality that can appreciate is the human behavior of the coach, not his specific knowledge. Remember that every athlete is a different man, and this is the key for his improvement.

Regarding my athletes, we are at the last 2 weeks of a long period of preparation. Shaheen will run WCCh in short : he had some small problem, but I think that can be ready. Among my Qatari athletes, Sultan Zaman improved from last year, running 2nd in Caceres back Lebid and winning Diekirch, but is strong expecially on the mud. Kwalia is not too much adapted for a cross, and Hassan had to stop training for the last 2 weeks due to a tendon injury. But the team is not bad, and I hope to present 2 athletes that nobody knows, that can be a very important "atout" for the team.

Regarding my Kenyan athletes in the team (Mosop, John Korir, Abraham Cherono in long run, Catherine Kirui, Irene Kwambai and Irene Limika among women), I personally think that the strategy of removing the top runners from their coaches during the last 4 weeks is not correct, and like me Patrick Sang and Brother Colm think the same. In my personal strategy, the best runners must continue with their coaches till last 10 days, when they have to go all together in a camp for assembling the "spirit of the team". The idea that WCCCh is a team competition is correct, but if you don't have legs for running fast, what is the importance of the tactic and of the team ? When in Paris the Ethiopians are able running last 5000m in 12:57 and the best PB of the Kenyans is 13:03, what a team can do ? But anyway, I wish to Kenyan team to grow again, having some good chances against Ethiopians (expecially if Bekele and Sihine have problems).

Now, we are on the finish line, and the only thing that we can do is to await and to look.

Renato what can you tell us about brother colm o'connel's traning system. Pretty amazing having very young guys like Songok and Choge run 3.30 and 12.57.

bump

what??? wrote:

schrawtz is not tinmans last nanme

True, his name is not "schrawtz" just like your name isn't "what???" (though the implication that you are a clueless idiot fits perfectly).

I think most of the runners in Norway do to many mistakes during their training. Another problem is that to many coaches and athletes do not really understand what they need to do to run fast. They can repeat the same mistakes during training for years. They even continue to use the same schedule even when their results are poor for years. There is always a "but", if you may suggest another training menu.

The main reason why Marius perform at quite high European standard, is that he train well and that he has a very good sensitivity regarding what kind of training he need to do at different stages. But still he need to improve to achieve the same standard as the very best runners.

To many Norwegian runners follow their program even when their body isnt ready for it. Many push themselves to hard both during intervals and during workouts at the track.

I'm a bit suprised about Knuts' statement. My impression of Knuts' interval- and track training is that it is to HARD, with to high anaerobic turnover. May be I'm wrong concerning your own training, Knut, since I have not seen it live. However, I'm quite sure that this was the case when you coach your club athletes some years ago (At least, I have seen many of these sessions live).

You may have adjusted your training strategy a bit?

May be the "intensity- factor" explain your problems with injuries and regarding your sinuses?

I do not think that you could have run faster, even with less commitments. I think small mistakes in your intensive track and interval sessions, may have "killed" you anyway.

However, you performanced well, no doubt.

Any comments to this, Knut?

NOTE!

Lactate measurements may increase the athletes sensitivity of thair exercise intensity, and may assist some of them to hit their target intensity during training. But of course, the coach need to have good knowledge about the use of the meters. Not many coaches or athletes have enough knowledge about it, at least in Norway.

Frank what do you think of the manual found at friidrett.no, about how an 5000m-runner should train. Is it a correct and useful programe to follow?

http://www.friidrett.no/files/

{727A9132-DDB5-4E36-A592-87F92499C27F}.doc

i dont want to speak for others but i doubt that Frank Eversten recommends a program that consists of only one treshold run per week, 2 track workouts and the rest easy mileage.

Hi Renato -

I have learned a lot from your posts and I really appreciate it. I have a question about what you would do in my situation: I am a former 4min miler and 14:01 5K, but have been suffering from achilles and lower leg stiffness and pain off and on for several months. The pain seems to subside when I do faster, more explosive workouts (ie hillbounding, intervals). An 8 mile run leaves me extremely sore the next day...

What would you recommend I do?

Much appreciated!

Frank Evertsen wrote:

NOTE!

Lactate measurements may increase the athletes sensitivity of thair exercise intensity, and may assist some of them to hit their target intensity during training. But of course, the coach need to have good knowledge about the use of the meters. Not many coaches or athletes have enough knowledge about it, at least in Norway.

Frank, i´m not from Norway, but can´t you say what you know about lactic acid meters that WE don´t, and what made you think that many coches aren´t enough knowledge about it?

Or what´s the correct and the wrong?

One thing that made me guess that most of Nordics relate to latins are different is the fact that they say some ideas or that´s suposed to be facts, but then they don´t justify or argue about that sentences -they are prety secretives. Of course that i don´t wait for an academic desertation/paper about the acid lactic meter use, but since you do an afirmation, you need to justify that or in our minds that´s an absurd or an inconsequent post, as classified as not trust.

How can we know if you are saying a nonsense idea or if you are simple saying a very speculative idea? Thus please, say a minimum justification of that your issue.

Antonio,

I responded to Knuts' email. I know that you do not come from Norway!

Many coaches, athletes, and even test personels, read the figure at the screen without any knowledge what this figure really mean! I did not advocate that I know more than you, or others, about such meters. However, maybe I was not clear: Dont use it, if you dont know how to use it! Smart, isnt it?

Timing the speed during, f. ex. workouts at the track, maybe useless if your athletes are not ready to run as fast as the coach want that spesific day or session.

The manual is to complicated, and some of the information mislead athletes to believe that figures and details are the most important issue if you want to become a champion.

What is the main challenge in distance running? The main aim is to be able to run faster with out getting tierd to soon. Your training should basically be build up so you may be able to run faster without accumulation of lactic acid. This should be the main target for your training.

Consequently, there is only one thing you have to face - you need to run fast as often as possible, almost every day, without getting to tierd! First of all you need to run as much as possible quite near your spesific race speed. Use only slow runs when you need a break to recover, otherwise, never!

If you cannot do that - forget it, start with something else. Because if your body and mind cannot handle this, then you will never achieve international level.

Simply, start to run, and stop playing around like this manual is suggesting! And forget the persentage of this and that! It will not help you at all...

I think you are right, Norway haven't had an international great runner since Ingrid, using this system. Different with Rodal and Bakken, using another system.

After the big success at the nordic ski championship. Do athletes like Bjoergen, Estil and others use a system similar to yours? The princips should be the same in that sport.

Frank Evertsen wrote:

Consequently, there is only one thing you have to face - you need to run fast as often as possible, almost every day, without getting to tierd! First of all you need to run as much as possible quite near your spesific race speed. Use only slow runs when you need a break to recover, otherwise, never!

If you cannot do that - forget it, start with something else. Because if your body and mind cannot handle this, then you will never achieve international level.

are you joking?

Is sub 3:32 not international level?

Is sub 27 not international level?

Is sub 13 not international level?

cause there are several athletes who have run under these barriers, doing easy mileage + few 2-3 workouts per week.

With all respect to you and Mr.Bakkens accomplishments, coaching an athlete to sub 13:10 shows that the training must be good BUT we talk here about an very,very gifted athlete with a superhigh vo2max who was able to run under 14mins as a junior not doing maximal/optimal training.

Dieter Baumann ,Mark Carroll or Bob Kennedy all ran faster than Marius with more easy and less treshold running, all were promising talents but not more than Marius was, how is that possible if they trained so wrong?Kennedy even not doing altitude training..

"If you cannot do that - forget it, start with something else. Because if your body and mind cannot handle this, then you will never achieve international level."...a lie.