Foot Locker CC Nationals Discussion Thread

...interseting that the Reina and Hunter ran the same regional course, McAlpine in Charlotte NC, but Hunter's record is 40sec faster than Reina's time. I don't care how muddy it was in 85 if it was at all. mcalpine never runs that much slower in the mud.

I guess you're right. But just for kicks, let's see what CRAIG VIRGIN thinks.

Bell curve wrote:

Ah yes, let's just revise history to make our opinion the truth. SMH.

Times at Balboa wrote:

Reuben Reina ran 14:36 at Balboa in 1985. Eight of 31 runners in that race ran 14:54 or faster and the 9th finisher ran 14:56 (same rounded time as Andrew Hunter from today).

Nearly half the 1985 field ran faster than Phillip Rocha.

How can anybody believe that many runners in 1985 were truly faster than Hunter or Rocha. The course was probably faster in 1985 if it was the same exact course which seems doubtful.

No freshman in the races this year.

salukidawg wrote:

Tom Schwartz from Forreston IL?

That's the same Tom Schwartz! Good guy, too!

salukidawg wrote:

Tom Schwartz from Forreston IL?

That's the same Tom Schwartz! Good guy, too!

go hard or go homeschooled wrote:

keepingitrels wrote:

What a terrible race, had hunter controlled himself he could have run in the 14:40s but instead he went out way to fast for his abilities. still just a kid so he has some time to become a smart racer

Perhaps you noticed that Hunter did not go out by himself. That's how cross country races often go.

From the sounds of things most posters here didn't notice that because they were looking at a giant inflatable referee for most the race.

mcgregador wrote:

...interseting that the Reina and Hunter ran the same regional course, McAlpine in Charlotte NC, but Hunter's record is 40sec faster than Reina's time. I don't care how muddy it was in 85 if it was at all. mcalpine never runs that much slower in the mud.

I feel like this needs more attention. If it is indeed the same FLS course, Hunter actually ran about a minute faster because of the newly lengthened course. There is no way, regardless of weather and effort, that Hunter could then come back and run 20 seconds slower at Footlocker 2 weeks later. Makes no sense... something is up.

My guess is BOTH courses are different from when Reina ran them years ago. Very few course get properly measured/set up, which is a shame since people do care about the history of this sport.

Ah yes, certainly a person that has NEVER BEEN TO THE COURSE OR EVENT can shed some light on this topic for us.Hunter slowed from 4:31 to 4:55 from the first to second mile. What the hell are we even talking about here? He didn't have a great day and no one was around him. Deal with it. Jeez.

The Dirty Duck wrote:

I guess you're right. But just for kicks, let's see what CRAIG VIRGIN thinks.

Bell curve wrote:

Ah yes, let's just revise history to make our opinion the truth. SMH.

If the courses are the same, then the surfaces could still be different, i.e. more sawdust etc, and slower now than they were.

However I think the main reason is that Ruben Reina ran an awesomely even paced race all the way, and Hunter ran in a very jerky energy sapping uneven manner.

For example, even before 800 when the pace was already quite fast, he put in an even harder extended surge on top of that. Then he tore down the first longer downhill in a way too fast out of controlled manner, which might have been the key to his subsequent slowdown. In fact, his overall pace noticeably slowed right after that. Had he run evenly through the course then his pace would have been quite a bit faster, but that's not what he did.

Thus I think any difference in the course had not much to do with the difference in times, and Reina deservedly ran much better than Hunter, at least for this one course and race.

Reina's race

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhpDLTuSpcU

Hunter's race (full)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3yqV0paeDY

Just watched the video from yesterday. Hunter was very tired after the hill the second time. You can see his stride rate slowed significantly.

Last year, Fisher made his move at the 90 degree-turn tree a little while after climbing the hill the second time. From that point to the finish Fisher ran 2:05. Ches ran 2:10 from that point in his race with Futsum (a competitive race that he won by 1 second). Hunter ran 2:20 from the tree to the finish yesterday. He was hurtin'. 15 seconds in less than 800m is huge.

A 4:55 mile split for the second mile on that course is rare. You hit the hill right after the first mile.

And after a 4:31 first mile.

He ran the smartest tactic to win the race. He knew if he took it out hard from the start everyone else would let him go and the other top contenders would run for second.

When Reina ran 14:36 in a great field they went out under control and Troy Maddux from Illinois took the lead in the middle mile and only Reina stayed with it. I bet that was probably the fastest middle mile run ever for that race and Reina must have ran one of the fastest last miles ever other than Cheserek when he started his kick going up the last hill.

Some people (myself included) were interested in this year's race anticipating a 30 year old course record going down.

But you win the race first. Its cross country not track. I don't even know why they time cross country races with different courses and weather conditions.

I never thought the record was in jeopardy this year. Nothing against Hunter, but to run that fast on a course like Balboa you better have a super competitive race, or be an absolute crazed animal on that given day. Since he was head and shoulders above everyone, I figured he'd run about 14:50-:52, but not make a move until the second half of the race.We've talked about the competitive race of '85. Now for the crazed animal...Please watch Chris Solinsky's 2002 FLN race:http://www.flotrack.org/video/375918-foot-locker-top-moments-from-the-past-decade-6-the-rocket-dominatesHe ran 14:40 (4:43-4:53-4:37). That's a 4:37 last mile, which of course includes going up the hill a second time. You see him charging up the hill during that last mile? You see that turnover after coming down the hill? That's what it takes to run 14:40 on that course. I believe he was "only" about an 8:50 2 mile guy his junior year. As a senior he ran 8:43.

Just for fun... Watch little junior Ritz own a bunch of seniors that would all end up being NCAA All Americans, NCAA champions, and World/Olympic team members. All out with 600m to go. Ran 8:41.1 for 3200m as a junior for 3200m that following spring, winning by close to 30 seconds at his state meet.http://youtu.be/fbsAC1n-AC0

i eat vegetables...sometimes wrote:

i love how Hunter is in the Letsrun conversation for GOAT high school cross country, but yet the guys who everyone is comparing him to (Ritz, Solinsky, Verbikas, Fischer, Lindgren etc) get ripped on Letsrun because they aren't tough enough or haven't had a "successful" enough career.

Rupp isn't generally in the conversation for best high school athlete, especially, but he's basically the most successful (and fastest) American distance runner ever and has the marathon still to come to add to his resume.

maybe being the GOAT high school runner is a recipe for a disappointing professional career?

keep speculating guys, it'll help tons.....

Are you crazy? Ritz has had a bad career? Solinsky? Yeah bad is you are the type of baseball fan that gets mad every year when your team doesn't win the world series. Fan stands for fanatic - meaning crazy.

All sports fans rip people/teams for not being better - in fans views runners whould win every race and their favorite NFL team should win the Super Bowl every year - but most people would say Ritz/Solinsky had great careers.

No, if you can be the GOAT in HS, you want it. Look at Lebron in the NBA. The more talent you are the more likely you are to be a top pro.

And in the PED era, who knows what to believe.

It is pretty amazing to have a young person who is that solid in their beliefs and faith. Someone who understands that it is not all about them. Someone who is not afraid to hide behind an anonymous forum name.

Ladies First wrote:

opioid wrote:

2nd place finisher - "I just want to say, thank you Mary, mother of God."

Awesome. We need more athletes who are not afraid to say what they believe.

Not awesome....she sounded like a moron! She could have just as well said thanks the the flying spaghetti monster...ha ha ha! Brainwashed!